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The State of the Game - Via PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The State of the Game - Via PvP

Sardukhar's Avatar


Sardukhar
12.20.2011 , 10:59 PM | #31
Interesting and lucid post. That GCD really is an issue only when, as you say, you go to multiples. Even then, as one young man pointed out rudely, you can do it if you manage resources and your opponents are poorly skilled relative to yourself.

But your point, I think, stands. The iron-locked GCD helps force a certain lag-aware playstyle and it is not a fluid, swift playstyle. This is too bad, but as another rude young man pointed out, it's as much a function of the software demand as game balance, I believe.

Getting your GCD down as low as possible absolutely matters when you play at a certain level - or even if you are just "in the zone". You can do a lot in less than a second, I think few of us who play a lot of games could convincingly argue that. If you'd like to, please review high-ish level WoW PvP or SC1/2 videos first.

If it becomes an issue for BW, I think they might have Alacrity affect the GCD. I'd bet they tested it, but as to whether or not it's implemented, we'll see. Not for quite some time, though, as it would change the balance on so much.

Finally, an appeal. To those of you who reply, please consider if you wish another venom-filled immature cesspit akin to the WoW boards. It may amuse you for now, but eventually it will tire you out and annoy you.

Some foresight: build a healthy, courteous online community and it will be useful and pleasant to visit. Don't and it won't.

Lokits's Avatar


Lokits
12.20.2011 , 11:56 PM | #32
This

Quote: Originally Posted by Mackuss View Post
Not to MENTION how there is no diminishing returns (noticeably anyway), so you can be stunned until death.

Maybe to alleviate this, they should put way more things off of the GCD, but I don't know what that would do for the already atrocious server side lag.
.
/fix pvp
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Rabbican's Avatar


Rabbican
12.21.2011 , 01:58 AM | #33
I don't think the analogies were quite necessary. I agree more things should be off the GCD, your class buff, interrupts, and relics / cooldowns (1 min +).

Despite the dynamic environment of PVP, I am still able to use my global cd's whenever I wish until I am stunned or CC'ed, this is a luxury for a ranged class, melee have issues with range.

Yes you can get stunned to death... this exists in any MMO, WOW in particular different stuns were on different diminishing returns kidney shot versus cheap shot for example, blind sap etc..

Could they improve the resolve system? Sure I think they should add slows and especially SNARES to count toward your resolve bar. Resolve actually does work, if you aren't getting healed / guarded / taunted while being focused you will die and be stunned to death... if your team supports you won't.
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Tasaio's Avatar


Tasaio
12.21.2011 , 04:43 AM | #34
At first I thought this was an interesting post, but then I realized you don't really know what you're talking about. Not only that, you also have your facts wrong and attack people that try to correct you.

Base WoW GCD is 1.5 seconds (same as ToR), with the exception of few melee classes (cats, rogues, unholy DKs) - most of their abilities trigger 1 second global cooldown. Also shaman totems only have 1 sec GCD, affliction warlocks have talent that decreases the GCD on curses to 1 sec, resto druids have talent that decreases the GCD of rejuvenation to 1 sec and arms warriors have 0.5 sec GCD on hamstring. That's it, iirc. Haste lowers GCD, but only for casters and it can never be lower than 1 second, no matter how much haste rating you have.

I don't get your rant about 1.5 sec being somehow great for arenas, but awful for everything else and it leaves me with the impression that you don't really know what you're talking about. The mechanic imposes same restrictions on arena play as on everything else in the game. Also for the record, personally I don't agree with saying arenas are toxic for MMO. An endless headache to balance, sure, but arenas are what kept me and my friends subscribed to wow for a long time after raiding and PVE in general lost it's shine for us.

I do however agree with OP's point - that the GCD is a bit too long. GCD, aside from the server-client communication issues, also has role in the game design itself - it is what prevents too many things happening at once, so to speak and also to put a bottleneck on classes with manabar-like resource systems. This is why ferals, rogues and DKs have lower GCD in wow, they use energy or runes and runic power as a resource. I play only my bounty hunter (and sith warrior in beta), so I don't know about resource systems of other classes. But I definitely feel like the combat could be more fast paced, as far as using abilities goes. Especially because the game engine feels a bit lazy, like somebody already mentioned.

EternalFinality's Avatar


EternalFinality
12.21.2011 , 11:25 AM | #35
It's funny that you've missed diagnosing the actual problem with the GCD - that your equivalent of autoattack ALSO trips the GCD. This is the real problem. This is why the game feels so unresponsive.

MrTerrito's Avatar


MrTerrito
12.21.2011 , 11:28 AM | #36
I made a PvP commentary video of some suggestions I had for the game, my sig if you're interested.

Pokeytehpenguin's Avatar


Pokeytehpenguin
12.21.2011 , 12:00 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Mackuss View Post
http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/bl...ere-a-mistake/

lol. Not the brightest crayon in the box are we?

Blizzard even admitted it's the worst thing they ever did because the second the thing was created, the game there on out has to be changed and balanced around them. The second you insert arena in games, no matter how you slice it, the game is now a game balanced around arena and everything else (questing, PvE) are now side thoughts.

Not the other way around.

While I might not agree with everything you said 100%, I do agree, and have been saying since there release, that arenas ruined wow. What makes PVE interesting and fun will always make PVP in-balanced, It is impossible to balance for both, ideally PVP would be 100% separate from pve. There would be pvp only abilities and gear, so that the two could exist without ruining balance or homogenizing classes.



Quote: Originally Posted by Tasaio View Post
Also for the record, personally I don't agree with saying arenas are toxic for MMO. An endless headache to balance, sure, but arenas are what kept me and my friends subscribed to wow for a long time after raiding and PVE in general lost it's shine for us.

While logically I can't comment on why PVE lost its shine for you, I would argue the introduction of arenas did not help.

Mackuss's Avatar


Mackuss
12.21.2011 , 02:53 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by TheDirtyRider View Post
Any anyone with half a brain can tell you its 1.5 seconds.

1.0 seconds for DK's in unholy presence.
or arcane mages with first tier talents, or shamans with any haste gear, or hunters (period), or any non feral druid with Nature's Grace, or...hell anyone beyond level 20.

And yeah, I'm sure EEEEVERYONE but DKs has a 1.5 second GCD at level 85. EVERYONE.

lol, fool.
while(horse.State == dead)
{
horse.beat();
}

Mackuss's Avatar


Mackuss
12.21.2011 , 02:56 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Sardukhar View Post
Interesting and lucid post. That GCD really is an issue only when, as you say, you go to multiples. Even then, as one young man pointed out rudely, you can do it if you manage resources and your opponents are poorly skilled relative to yourself.

But your point, I think, stands. The iron-locked GCD helps force a certain lag-aware playstyle and it is not a fluid, swift playstyle. This is too bad, but as another rude young man pointed out, it's as much a function of the software demand as game balance, I believe.

Getting your GCD down as low as possible absolutely matters when you play at a certain level - or even if you are just "in the zone". You can do a lot in less than a second, I think few of us who play a lot of games could convincingly argue that. If you'd like to, please review high-ish level WoW PvP or SC1/2 videos first.

If it becomes an issue for BW, I think they might have Alacrity affect the GCD. I'd bet they tested it, but as to whether or not it's implemented, we'll see. Not for quite some time, though, as it would change the balance on so much.

Finally, an appeal. To those of you who reply, please consider if you wish another venom-filled immature cesspit akin to the WoW boards. It may amuse you for now, but eventually it will tire you out and annoy you.

Some foresight: build a healthy, courteous online community and it will be useful and pleasant to visit. Don't and it won't.
THANK YOU for having sense as well as obvious skill.
while(horse.State == dead)
{
horse.beat();
}

Thiweo's Avatar


Thiweo
12.21.2011 , 03:00 PM | #40
Ehh, my eyes started bleeding after the first couple sentences.

I take it, blah blah blah, I'm not leet so fix it so I can be. The game is only 2 days old!!!
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