Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Arsenal Mercenary Guide: 1.3 Updated!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Arsenal Mercenary Guide: 1.3 Updated!

Tobradex's Avatar


Tobradex
08.01.2012 , 11:15 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Trying to tell Aerro he is wrong is a complete waste of time. The guy's ego is laughably huge. Here is what will happen.

#1) "I am right because my guild is one of the top world!"
#2) "I am right because I said so and that makes me right cause I am always right"
#3) /innocent "This is my very own made up thread designed solely to help people. Stop telling me I'm wrong because thats just rude"
#4) "My gear is better than yours and I do more DPS so everything I say must be right"

People look at his stuff because he has a general grasp of how to play a mercenary, but don't ever tell him he is wrong...complete waste of breath.

Look 2-3 posts ahead of your post and see where Aerro likes a suggestion and wants to use it in his guide. I do not know Aerro other than seeing his posts trying to help others in a constructive way. I have seen nothing to indicate he does not consider other ideas in min/max/theorycrafting. Additionally, I like the fact that he lists in his guide that he is in a leading guild. That lets me know he is probably not just some hack writing up a useless guide after clearing their first SM EV.

No need for such hating of someone who has helped so many.
Xibrom - 50 Operative Healer

Oculi 50 Mercenary

deadandburied's Avatar


deadandburied
08.01.2012 , 05:41 PM | #42
The guide is a good start. But is incorrect in a few areas.

Time for some math. The below is about what i do for damage.

Unload=7200 average damage total/3=2400dps
HSM=3500 average damage total/1.5=2333dps
RS=3300 average damage total/1.5=2200dps
TM=2400 average damage total/1.5=1600dps
Rapid Shots=900 average damage total/1.5=600dps

As you can see Unload comes out on top followed by HSM then RS then TM. With TM doing not so good dps. Also must weave some Rapid Shots in and that's some terrible dps there.

Railshot on 5 stacks only-This is wrong. We have 3 abilities which do great damage. Unload, Heat Seeker Missles and Railshot. Rotation is based on the cooldowns of HSM and RS while squeezing in a couple Unloads. Increasing the rotation to 16.5 seconds because you say you need a 5 stack instead of a 4 stack is a dps loss. So let's math the timeline. For some reason you couldn't get a 5 stack. Let's assume you were running or a halt was called for dps. I'll go with the running out of the red circle thingie twice.

16.5 seconds because you delayed RS to get a 5 stack
HSM+UL+TM+Rapid+UL+TM+Rapid+TM+RS
3500+7200+2400+900+7200+2400+900+2400+3300/16.5=1830dps

15 seconds and hit RS with a 4 stack instead of a 5 stack
HSM+UL+TM+Rapid+UL+TM+Rapid+RS
3500+7200+2400+900+7200+2400+900+(3113)/15=1841dps

Advantage goes to NOT delaying Railshot. If you have a 4 stack and RS is off cooldown you use it.

-Unload (with Barrage Proc)-This is incorrect as well. Why would you delay using your hardest hitting ability. You would if the damage difference between a Barrage proc and a non barrage proc made it to where you should delay it. However recall that the 25% extra damage is really only an 18% increase in damage as it's additive and not muliplicative.

1+.33=133%
1+.33+.25=157%
157/133=1.18% so that's an18% increase in damage from 133% to 157%
133/157=85% so that's a 15% decrease in damage from 157% to 133%
7200/3=2400dps as shown previously this is at 157%
7200*.85=6120/3=2040dps this is your damage and dps at 133%

Now barrage proc is 45%. That's once every 2 .22 TM's. You must ask yourself this. Do you want to spam TM when it does 1600dps or would you rather use a non barrage proc Unload that does 2040dps. The answer is obvious. The only exception would be if RS is coming off cool down in 4.5 seconds. You know you will be hitting a UL and TM. So may as well hit the TM first as it may proc barrage.

FYI always RS before HSM. It's superior doing it this way for venting heat.

Aerro's Avatar


Aerro
08.01.2012 , 06:00 PM | #43
Barrage proc is 45%, but otherwise solid math.
Arsenal DPS Guide
One of the leading Mercenaries in a World Progression Guild.

deadandburied's Avatar


deadandburied
08.01.2012 , 06:25 PM | #44
As for the talent builds. If you use the simulator it actually sims out best with approx 3.5% alacrity. You'd need to increase it to 9% to equal the dps at 3.5%. Now why is this you may ask. It's because of latency which is factored into the simulator. Basically your abilities need to be under 1.5 seconds. So the 5/31/5 build with 4% alacrity achieves this. However this is not accurate at all for me. My server has so much lag my casts average 1.72 seconds. The simulator is terrible at simulating lag. By my math this is what i get based on cast times.

1.364-1.50=1900dps
1.501-1.65=1727dps (worse case)
1.651-1.875=1520dps (worse case)
1.876-2.14=1332dps (worse case)

My server has an average lag of .230 with latency of 50ms this totals to .280. So my casts with no alacrity average 1.780. This puts me in the worse case scenario of 1520dps. Using the Ops dummy on the fleet with 200 people on the fleet i do from 1525-1575dps. Oddly Denova has about the same amount of lag. To get into the 1727dps range my casts need to be at 1.501-1.65. To achieve this it requires the 6/31/4 7% alacrity build plus 1 alacrity enhancemnt for 9.04% alacrity. I'll be switching to this soonish and do more testing to confirm it works out correctly.

So i approve the 6/31/4 build to help ensure you get into the lower cast times and higher damage range. So tired of this lag. It's killing everyones dps in our raids. Oh well at least it'll make Nitemare mode no cake walk.

deadandburied's Avatar


deadandburied
08.01.2012 , 06:35 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerro View Post
Barrage proc is 45%, but otherwise solid math.
Ha thanks for the correction. I always get something wrong. Updated to the correct value. I'm amazed i didn't screw up more than that. Commando here so just getting the ability names correctly for Mercs is difficult enough. While our dps will be slightly different it should still math out pretty close at +or-50dps.

You may also want to update your section on accuracy as it's easy to obtain 10%.


I ran about 50 sims with stats at varying amounts. Current BIS gear and gearing with future hardmode gear this is what i get for where you want your stats at.

power=920-1020 (if power is towards the low side then crit should be towards the high side)
accuracy=234-300 (289 is +10% but need as close to 10% as possible and Nitemare mode gear puts you slightly over)
crit=200-308 (if crit is towards the low side then power should be towards the high side)
surge=275-360 (Try not to exceed 300 as surge scales horribly due to DR. However Nitemare gear will force you to exceed 300 if you opt to not have slightly over 10% accuracy. 300 surge and 300 accuracy is optimal btw. Yes slightly over 10% accuracy is better then under 10% and increasing surge)

acnoj's Avatar


acnoj
08.01.2012 , 10:53 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by deadandburied View Post
Current BIS gear and gearing with future hardmode gear this is what i get for where you want your stats at.

power=920-1020 (if power is towards the low side then crit should be towards the high side)
accuracy=234-300 (289 is +10% but need as close to 10% as possible and Nitemare mode gear puts you slightly over)
crit=200-308 (if crit is towards the low side then power should be towards the high side)
surge=275-360 (Try not to exceed 300 as surge scales horribly due to DR. However Nitemare gear will force you to exceed 300 if you opt to not have slightly over 10% accuracy. 300 surge and 300 accuracy is optimal btw. Yes slightly over 10% accuracy is better then under 10% and increasing surge)
I got the same result when looking at what's likely to be on the next tier of gear, increasing Surge and Accuracy equally is optimal even though you go over the Accuracy soft cap. Swapping either stat for Alacrity was a small loss to sustained DPS. In their tier above that we'll probably have to drop both a Surge and an Accuracy enhancement for two Alacrity enhancements, but that's pretty far off.
A.K.A Freehugs (mmo-mechanics forums), Aid (Dalbora server)
Drawn and Dangerous, a D&D webcomic

cortea's Avatar


cortea
08.02.2012 , 04:46 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by deadandburied View Post
The simulator is terrible at simulating lag
Actually it's quite good. It's just that the default settings seem to not apply to you.

There are numerous lag options you can use:

They're documented here:

http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...ptions#Latency

gcd_lag : your basic server latency

channel_lag: generally double server latency, and is the delay loop in channel bar updating between client/server

queue_lag: how the server queues your action

default_world_lag: again basically server latency. This one is used to mimic cooldowns being extended due to server lag. That is, your client won't let you use an ability because it is on cooldown, but on the server the cooldown has already finished and that notification is in transit still.

and each of those have a _stddev option to allow the values to be varied during the simulation.

strict_gcd_queue basically mimics the queue option in game

reaction_time is documented elsewhere. But this is used in .react action lists so you can mimic the time needed to react to an event such as a buff or proc.

And as you state, these options can have a noticeable effect on the value of alacrity especially at smaller values.

I am sceptical of the values you suggest. I doubt you have a 2 second cast time on your tracer missile if you sit there and spam it. The queue option in the interface should allow for that. I have mine set to 25 since I get very good latency. How have you determined the 0.230 value?

deadandburied's Avatar


deadandburied
08.02.2012 , 07:10 PM | #48
Then i suggest you actually try changing some settings. Change the settings for world lag in the options tab. Try low 100ms, then med 300ms, then high 500ms. Oddly dps increases as world lag increases. How i wish that was true. Now try using the overides tab and inputing the settings you posted. Then get back to me. If you find anything that actually works correctly. And i mean a correct amount of dps loss as i previously showed and not 50 or 80, please get back to me as i'm not overly familiar with the program. Nor am i a coder and may be doing it wrong.

I Use SCLR to view my combat log. I also look at the combat log text file as SCLR doesn't show decimals. I also use Torparse log view which does show decimals. I just now picked a random Fleet Ops dummy test combat log. Looking at ability activate for the 1st 3 abilities ie Grav Roundx3 for my commando. I typically spam that at the start of a fight. Time between ability activate 1st and 2nd is 1.746 seconds. Time between 2nd and 3rd is 1.807 seconds. During bad lag spikes this exceeds 2 seconds. On average though it's about 1.720 seconds. Hence my reason for stating .230ms of lag with 50ms latency for .280 seconds added to my casts of 1.44 seconds which equals 1.72 seconds total as i showed in paragraph 1 of my other post.

cortea's Avatar


cortea
08.02.2012 , 08:08 PM | #49
I've used several before and they behaved as expected. I believe Ancoj also has used some and observed they behaved as expected. That is increasing latency decreased dps, and vice versa. I'll run the test you suggested and see if it behaves incorrectly.

Your methodology of testing your lag is flawed. Looking at a sample size of 3 hits from combat is going to be heavily subject to variability, not to mention confirmation bias since we all want to blame lag. And otherwise looking at the intervals of hits from actual operation combat is not purely a factor of server lag.

One test you could be doing is spamming tracer on a dummy non-stop until you hit a heat cap. Reset and do it again. Do this several times and then take the average time across all 40-50-60 however many you did to see what the real time inbetween attacks is.

Also you want to pay attention to what your ability action queue window is set to.

deadandburied's Avatar


deadandburied
08.02.2012 , 08:25 PM | #50
I've already done that. I didn't get my average based on my last post. It's from numerous logs over the last 2 months. I just showed a quick sample. I also stated i tried 0 25 50 and 75 for queing. Trust me i do plenty of testing weekly and sometimes daily. If your server doesn't have lag then count yourself lucky. And yes the lag is extremely variable. But since we raid during prime time this is obviously the worse time for lag. And please refrain from suggesting i'm trying to blame lag that doesn't exist when it in fact does on my server. FYI we did not have this lag on our previous server. It effects all of us during our 16 man hard mode Denova ops. I'm still where i should be on bosses. That's #1 on some fights and 2 or 3 or 4 on others. 9 times out of 10 i'm the guy on the ground running around for Stormcaller/Firebrand fight with a sage being the other. Overall for the nite i'm #1 or #2. Got another commando that's beats me more often than not as he's just slightly better than me. We typically run with 4 dps commandos.