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Canon ten most powerful Jedi and Sith.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Canon ten most powerful Jedi and Sith.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
07.25.2012 , 07:38 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Syra_Meleu View Post
And for all of those Revan haters, Revan was THE strongest force user, lightsaber duelist and overall 'best' Jedi / Sith of his time, which tells you something (he is strong), sourced from wookiepedia of course.
That's even more misinformation: Exar Kun, the Exile, Vitiate, Nomi Sunrider, Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion were all canonically more powerful than he was, match their ACTUAL abilities and not hyperbole, you'll see how flawed such statements are.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
07.25.2012 , 07:40 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Syra_Meleu View Post
@ Rayla, she held of Malak for a long period of time (whilst Lightside) and again, he was considered a top swordmaster and force user.
It wasn't very long at all, she charged him, locked the door and Revan ran off, you are suggesting it was the length of Vader vs Kenobi on Mustafar, it wasn't at all that long, so that means little to nothing.

Syra_Meleu's Avatar


Syra_Meleu
07.25.2012 , 07:43 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
That's even more misinformation: Exar Kun, the Exile, Vitiate, Nomi Sunrider, Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion were all canonically more powerful than he was, match their ACTUAL abilities and not hyperbole, you'll see how flawed such statements are.
'Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time,[2] and proved his mettle during difficult and challenging scenarios.[2][7] He defeated several powerful and dangerous adversaries in single combat, including Mandalore the Ultimate,[2] Yusanis,[7] Calo Nord,[3] Darth Bandon,[3] Darth Malak,[7] and Darth Nyriss.[2]'

'Revan was strong in the Force—the most gifted of his time—and eventually, by all accounts, managed to gain exceptional command of the Force.[2] Many of his peers were impressed by his talents and skills.[2][7][8] Another powerful Jedi, Meetra Surik, particularly noted that Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met.[2]' [wookiepedia]

Granted, in my top ten I put, most of whom you said were in it, they were very strong, but not the strongest.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
07.25.2012 , 07:44 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Syra_Meleu View Post
'Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time,[2] and proved his mettle during difficult and challenging scenarios.[2][7] He defeated several powerful and dangerous adversaries in single combat, including Mandalore the Ultimate,[2] Yusanis,[7] Calo Nord,[3] Darth Bandon,[3] Darth Malak,[7] and Darth Nyriss.[2]' [wookiepedia]

Granted, in my top ten I put, most of whom you said were in it, they were very strong, but not the strongest.
Wookieepedia is NOT a canonical source of information, this is a thread where you use actual canon facts to back your argument up, not a few paragraphs off of a wiki page,

Syra_Meleu's Avatar


Syra_Meleu
07.25.2012 , 07:47 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Wookieepedia is NOT a canonical source of information, this is a thread where you use actual canon facts to back your argument up, not a few paragraphs off of a wiki page,
So you're telling me The Old Republic : Revan is not canonical?

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
07.25.2012 , 08:04 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Syra_Meleu View Post
So you're telling me The Old Republic : Revan is not canonical?
You sourced Wookieepedia, not a page of the novel.

Want some canon facts:

Exar Kun was an immensely powerful Dark Lord of the Sith, he defeated his own master in a duel as a padawan, in a short amount of time his power grew exponentially through the Dark Side.

He learnt Force Flight, Force Blast, was a master of Niman and Jar'kai, killed multiple Jedi Masters, the council even admitted he was too powerful for them, it got to the point where he mutated the Massassi Warriors into Terentateks and eventually became so powerful he absorbed he life force of his warriors to ascend into a Sith spirit.

The entire Jedi Order of the day could only erect a Wall of Light to trap him on Yavin IV, they couldn't defeat him, four thousand years later, he knocked Master Luke Skywalker into a coma and almost destroyed the NJO, just as a spirit.

The Exile, was a master of the Light Side of the Force, she was one of the rare practitioners of Force Enlightenment, which gave her a far deeper understanding of the Light Side than all others of her time.

She could sever the Force from others and had mastery over countless other abilities, she trained six padawans simultaneously without trouble, and learned unique techniques from them.

Her most powerful display was single-handedly assaulting the Trayus Academy, decimating all the Sith Lords, Marauders and apprentices in the temple, then facing down Darth Sion beating him down so severely that her use of Dun Moch convinced him to die, this is a Sith Lord who had been hunting down and killing Jedi since the Exar Kun Wars 40 years earlier and then facing an all-knowing force user in Darth Traya, who had knowledge of all the Sith and the Jedi, and defeating her utterly, by severing her connection and all of these were massively enhanced by the Dark Side Nexus that Malachor V was, at this point, Traya stated that the Exile was 'The greatest apprentice I have ever trained.'.

Darth Nihilus needs no introduction, his power in the Dark Side was beyond immense.

Same with Vitiate.

and the same with Nomi.


The source for all of that info? Tales of the Jedi and The Knights of the Old Republic Sourcebook.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
07.25.2012 , 08:14 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Syra_Meleu View Post
So you're telling me The Old Republic : Revan is not canonical?
Unfortunately you did not quote the actual novels. Due to the ability for anyone to edit pages on a wiki, you may find outright lies being posted on certain pages that people will trust as canon. You will have to quote the actual Revan novel in order to provide canon facts.
Added Chapter 64 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Syra_Meleu's Avatar


Syra_Meleu
07.25.2012 , 08:25 PM | #58
Yes, The Exile is very strong, as is Revan, who was her instructor for a long period of time (informally). Revan is not canonically dead yet which shows VERY strong force powers, compared to the likes of The Emperor, maybe better, maybe worse, I'll make a proper list tomorrow after I've researched canon and all that good stuff. I'm not denying that any of these people are weak, Nihilus, strong. Sion, strong. The Exile, strong. etc..

Let us go through the canonical greats that Revan has achieved: (facts)

- He led the Republic / Jedi to victory against the Mandalorians, defeated the Mandalore, destruction of Malachor V and this gained him the nickance 'Revan the Butcher'
- Tracked down all of the Star Maps, TWICE; defeating numerous strong foe along the way.
- He became Sith, warred against the Jedi and was winning by a very long shot before the betrayal.
- He was credited by the Jedi Exile herself that he was a large factor in why she was so successful (teachings)
- He survived over 300 years of the Emperor feeding off of him, and from KotOR canon, where Malak feeds off Jedi Masters and Knights, he exclaims how he draws the power from them but they will eventually die (short term) which shows us how strong Revan is.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
07.25.2012 , 08:41 PM | #59
You know what I just realized. I hate these types of threads. The idea is great, but the Revan fanboys just ruin it by pretty much saying that Revan is the Force's gift to the galaxy. There really is no canonical facts to say that Revan is more poweful than any famous Jedi and Sith after his time. I get that Revan is powerful, but fanboys blow it out of proportion. They put him on a pedestal and worship him like he's the god of Star Wars. Revan's true forte (pronounced fortay) is military tactics. He won the Mandalore wars through his military strategies. This is not to say that he did not also lead his forces in battle, he did of course. However, his feats cannot compare to the Jedi and Sith that come after him. As this thread is no movie characters, I will refer to books. Jedi like Kyle Katarn and Kyp Durron would wipe the floor with him. Sith Lords like Plaguies and Caedus (not an official Sith, but close enough) could toss him aside like a rag doll.

The time between Revan's time and the present time is very long. Some 3000 years is alot of time for Jedi and Sith to increase in power. It makes sense that the descendants of the Jedi and the Banite line would increase in power over 3000 years. Revan is powerful, but his power cannot stand against the test of time. Revan's feats are outclassed by the feats of later Sith Lords and Jedi Masters.

I hope after reading all of this you understand that I do not hate Revan. I like his character and the plot that surrounds him. It's the Revan fanboys that ruin his character. Revan was great for his time, but he could not stand against the power of later Sith and Jedi. If you don't like what I have written, that's fine but don't prove me right.
Added Chapter 64 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
07.25.2012 , 08:42 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Syra_Meleu View Post
Yes, The Exile is very strong, as is Revan, who was her instructor for a long period of time (informally).

Scourge's suggestion has no factual basis, what time would Revan have had to teach her anything in the wars? she was leading her own quarter of their fleet the entire time, wining battles at Dxun, Serroco and others, there were no other times he could have done so.

Revan is not canonically dead yet which shows VERY strong force powers, compared to the likes of The Emperor, maybe better, maybe worse,

But we aren't talking about what Revan might be able to do, we are talking about what we have factually seen him do in the lore.

Let us go through the canonical greats that Revan has achieved: (facts)

- He led the Republic / Jedi to victory against the Mandalorians, defeated the Mandalore, destruction of Malachor V and this gained him the nickance 'Revan the Butcher'

Along with Alek, Kavar, Surik and other Republic generals, all Revan did was learn Mandalorian tactics and then use the advantage of massive manpower and a host of Jedi to win his battles, oh and also, the Exile commanded the space battle of Malachor V, she gave the order to use the MSG.

- Tracked down all of the Star Maps, TWICE; defeating numerous strong foe along the way.

Not exactly some massive achievement but true.

- He became Sith, warred against the Jedi and was winning by a very long shot before the betrayal.

An already battered and practically defeated Republic and Order, of which he'd taken one third of the fleet and practically half the Jedi Order and turned against them previously.

- He was credited by the Jedi Exile herself that he was a large factor in why she was so successful (teachings).

Honestly we have no idea in what way he was a large factor though and the truly powerful Exile we know of, was retrained entirely by the Jedi Council (informally) and Kreia, Revan's own master.

- He survived over 300 years of the Emperor feeding off of him, and from KotOR canon, where Malak feeds off Jedi Masters and Knights, he exclaims how he draws the power from them but they will eventually die (short term) which shows us how strong Revan is.

He only survived, if you remember, because the Exile's spirit stayed with him and gave him the strength and life force to fight back mentally.
What I just showed you is a much more cynical view of Revan and his character, equally as applicable as your's.

Revan is powerful, one of the most powerful of his day, the truth is, in a canon debate, all we have to go on are a few battles from the novel 'Revan', we know very little of his abilities, so far he doesn't exactly stack up, but given how much praise he got, he obviously was more powerful than the canon alludes to, so we can't really give him any definite 'rank' for his time, the character statements we have are almost all biased opinions who all see Revan as this major idol and leader, so we can't really use them as an objective outlook.