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Canon ten most powerful Jedi and Sith.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Canon ten most powerful Jedi and Sith.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.23.2012 , 04:17 PM | #181
Just to make a point, Bastila's Battle Meditation would probably have countered the enormous nexus of the Dark Side that was the Star Forge that Malak was calling upon.

The whole dead Jedi thing is totally up for debate, we have no idea how many Malak was able to use.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.23.2012 , 04:22 PM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by Airmo View Post
It sounds plausible, doesn't mean it's true. =/
This was posted by Rayla on my Battle Meditation thread:

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Except Battle Meditation does effect Force Users, we have seen it done many, many times over where a Jedi has used battle meditation to enhance their fellow members, one such instance is Darths Bane and Zannah vs a whole group of Jedi Masters and Knights, Bane and Zannah were clearly losing due to it's effects until the Master was slain.

Naga Sadow also used a very advanced variation that was winning him the entire Great Hyperspace War with the Jedi Order in chaos until his meditation sphere was fired upon.

Many more instances are out there, but you get the point.
Battle Meditation would have affected Revan. So now we ask yourselves, to what degree?

We know that Battle Meditation can turn the tide of battle to your side and greatly benefit allies. We see this when Bane and Zannah fight a group of Jedi Masters and Knights being affected by Battle Meditation. Bane and Zannah were clearly losing until the Jedi using Battle Meditation was slain.

So how did it affect Revan? It turned him into an indomitable warrior against Malak's use of dead Jedi. The Battle Meditation fed Revan the strength of will to continue fighting and enhanced his abilities. Bastila's use of Battle Meditation effectively leveled the playing field. Now Revan only had to fight Malak so many times.

So basically we have them both at their max, fighting each other, the effects of Battle Meditation and the Dark energies of the Star Forge effectively cancelling out, except for the Battle Meditation giving Revan a constant supply of strength to fight. So Revan beating Malak is still quite the feat, but not as big as some may think. The energy Malak gained from the Star Forge was, you could say, equal to the energy that Revan was getting from Battle Meditation. So really, all Malak had going for him was the dead Jedi. But even then he lost.

Edit: Or you can just look up at what Rayla posted.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.23.2012 , 04:31 PM | #183
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This was posted by Rayla on my Battle Meditation thread:



Battle Meditation would have affected Revan. So now we ask yourselves, to what degree?

We know that Battle Meditation can turn the tide of battle to your side and greatly benefit allies. We see this when Bane and Zannah fight a group of Jedi Masters and Knights being affected by Battle Meditation. Bane and Zannah were clearly losing until the Jedi using Battle Meditation was slain.

So how did it affect Revan? It turned him into an indomitable warrior against Malak's use of dead Jedi. The Battle Meditation fed Revan the strength of will to continue fighting and enhanced his abilities. Bastila's use of Battle Meditation effectively leveled the playing field. Now Revan only had to fight Malak so many times.

So basically we have them both at their max, fighting each other, the effects of Battle Meditation and the Dark energies of the Star Forge effectively cancelling out, except for the Battle Meditation giving Revan a constant supply of strength to fight. So Revan beating Malak is still quite the feat, but not as big as some may think. The energy Malak gained from the Star Forge was, you could say, equal to the energy that Revan was getting from Battle Meditation. So really, all Malak had going for him was the dead Jedi. But even then he lost.
Right. So I guess we've determined that Bastila's battle med likeely DID influence the battle.

Let's look at it this way:
Revan + Bastila's battle meditation
vs
Malak + Star Forge dark side energies AND 8 dead lives to feed on.

SPECULATION STARTS NOW:

Bastila's battle meditation likely countered the dark side of the Star Forge and a few of Malak's dead guys. On top of that, Revan likely destroyed a number of those lives. So with the advantages canceling out, we have this:

Revan
vs
Malak + 2 to 6 dead guys to feed on

That's the why I see it. So essiantally, Revan has to beat Malak 2-6 times in a row. So I feel that this is a very significant accomplishment.

Airmo's Avatar


Airmo
11.23.2012 , 04:32 PM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

Battle Meditation would have affected Revan. So now we ask yourselves, to what degree?

We know that Battle Meditation can turn the tide of battle to your side and greatly benefit allies. We see this when Bane and Zannah fight a group of Jedi Masters and Knights being affected by Battle Meditation. Bane and Zannah were clearly losing until the Jedi using Battle Meditation was slain.

Yeah but the guy using Battle Meditiation was right in the room with the other Jedi, Revan was off in a different section of the Star Forge, though we have no idea how far away that was so, also that jedi was focusing entirely on the others fighting, Bastila had a fleet to help after being beaten by Revan.

So how did it affect Revan? It turned him into an indomitable warrior against Malak's use of dead Jedi. The Battle Meditation fed Revan the strength of will to continue fighting and enhanced his abilities. Bastila's use of Battle Meditation effectively leveled the playing field. Now Revan only had to fight Malak so many times.

So basically we have them both at their max, fighting each other, the effects of Battle Meditation and the Dark energies of the Star Forge effectively cancelling out, except for the Battle Meditation giving Revan a constant supply of strength to fight. So Revan beating Malak is still quite the feat, but not as big as some may think. The energy Malak gained from the Star Forge was, you could say, equal to the energy that Revan was getting from Battle Meditation. So really, all Malak had going for him was the dead Jedi. But even then he lost.

Edit: Or you can just look up at what Rayla posted.

I think the, practically, living embodiment of the Dark Side that was the Star Forge gave Malak more of an edge then your making it sound like. I doubt that even if Bastila's battle meditation was helping Revan it would not have made as much an impact as the Star Forge was giving to Malak.
Just my two cents.
"Darkness is a friend, an ally. Darkness allows us to understand others, to see what they value when they believe no one else is looking. It allows us to be honest with ourselves, to express those values that we would disavow in the light. The light blinds us. It is only in the dark that we see clearly."

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.23.2012 , 04:46 PM | #185
I did not quote anyone so I am sorry if it seems little wierd when you read it.

Aurbere , I know this is gonna stress you out when I reply about this and I say good for you for giving Revan a inche........
Revan saber skills might not even be 2nd , 3rd , or even 200th of his time , we simply have no clues other than he was good at using a Lightsaber .............again Poor Writing on Drew's behalf and horrble on LA for noone willing to bring us some clarity on this issue.

Revan beat Malek before , its how he lost his Jaw and some sick sense of humor Revan had to let him live after that fight .
As for Bastila , she was a Padawan when she was paired with Revan if I remember correctly , I believe in KotoR II they said she was a Master , I know in KotoR II they said Revan was a Jedi Master and he never gained the Rank above Knight according to KotoR 1 .
Her Battle Meditation might not have been all that great but I never doubt those who I am about to fight , so lets say it was on Par with Shadow . Malek Canonly was gaining strength and power from the Star Forge , so how much of a advantage did Bastila's meditation give to Revan ?
I am just going to point out that
1 Revan was still not fully himself at the point of the fight and it was Pretty much till the end of the Novel that became fully aware of his abilities again .
2 Revan in a Duel with Malek pre KotoR showed him whos his daddy .

I give nothing to Revan and take nothing from him .
In a fight with Mace , I honestly think Mace would win . Not because of Achievements or powers , Just in the end , Mace took down the Evilest Being ever in StarWars and you do not need Canon to show that . No one in the history of lore in SW has been so evil as Palpatine .
Mace was good at using his lightsaber to guard against Sidious and he would have done the same with Revan who also relies decently on his Force Abilities Canonly discribed in the Novel and the Games , Not to mention Revan who seems to let his use of Darkside abilities pull him into the Darkside over and over would have met his end to Vaapad.

I am not going to say it would be a easy or hard fight and this is all JUST MY OPINION . My opinion is not backed by Canon , as this fight never happened and Revan is largely a unknown for a character 10years old and in 3 games and how many books and comics .

Revan was great enough that canonly Bane cared to learn from him, and that is all that matters to me .
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mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.23.2012 , 04:49 PM | #186
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Right. So I guess we've determined that Bastila's battle med likeely DID influence the battle.

Let's look at it this way:
Revan + Bastila's battle meditation
vs
Malak + Star Forge dark side energies AND 8 dead lives to feed on.

SPECULATION STARTS NOW:

Bastila's battle meditation likely countered the dark side of the Star Forge and a few of Malak's dead guys. On top of that, Revan likely destroyed a number of those lives. So with the advantages canceling out, we have this:

Revan
vs
Malak + 2 to 6 dead guys to feed on

That's the why I see it. So essiantally, Revan has to beat Malak 2-6 times in a row. So I feel that this is a very significant accomplishment.
Alot of people forget that somehow the StarForge got through Canon and somehow became Canon in its relation with the Darkside .
Rakatan Infinite Empire used alot of Darkside Tech .
Canonly Revan beat Malek twice
First time taking his Jaw as a lesson.
Malek was considered one of the best Saber skilled users in the Jedi Order , cannonly at that .
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.23.2012 , 04:52 PM | #187
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Right. So I guess we've determined that Bastila's battle med likeely DID influence the battle.

Let's look at it this way:
Revan + Bastila's battle meditation
vs
Malak + Star Forge dark side energies AND 8 dead lives to feed on.

SPECULATION STARTS NOW:

Bastila's battle meditation likely countered the dark side of the Star Forge and a few of Malak's dead guys. On top of that, Revan likely destroyed a number of those lives. So with the advantages canceling out, we have this:

Revan
vs
Malak + 2 to 6 dead guys to feed on

That's the why I see it. So essiantally, Revan has to beat Malak 2-6 times in a row. So I feel that this is a very significant accomplishment.
It is still quite the accomplishment, but we must remember that Revan was always better than Malak. We see this before when Revan "removed" Malak's jaw during their first confrontation. It's why Malak attacked Revan's ship from afar.

So with Malak and Revan on equal terms (no power-ups since they have effectively cancelled each other out) they fought to the death. But this is where speculation comes in. We don't know how many times Revan had to best Malak. We know he had to twice. The first round and then the second round with Malak using a dead Jedi. Seeing as how Revan was very smart, I would assume that he released the Jedi from their stasis, and that would be a "Light Side" deed. And since the events of KOTOR are canonically Light Side, we can assume that he did release them.

It is still quite the accomplishment, but Revan was always better than Malak. Smarter, faster, more powerful, just better.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.23.2012 , 04:56 PM | #188
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
I did not quote anyone so I am sorry if it seems little wierd when you read it.

Aurbere , I know this is gonna stress you out when I reply about this and I say good for you for giving Revan a inche........
Revan saber skills might not even be 2nd , 3rd , or even 200th of his time , we simply have no clues other than he was good at using a Lightsaber .............again Poor Writing on Drew's behalf and horrble on LA for noone willing to bring us some clarity on this issue.

Revan beat Malek before , its how he lost his Jaw and some sick sense of humor Revan had to let him live after that fight .
As for Bastila , she was a Padawan when she was paired with Revan if I remember correctly , I believe in KotoR II they said she was a Master , I know in KotoR II they said Revan was a Jedi Master and he never gained the Rank above Knight according to KotoR 1 .
Her Battle Meditation might not have been all that great but I never doubt those who I am about to fight , so lets say it was on Par with Shadow . Malek Canonly was gaining strength and power from the Star Forge , so how much of a advantage did Bastila's meditation give to Revan ?
I am just going to point out that
1 Revan was still not fully himself at the point of the fight and it was Pretty much till the end of the Novel that became fully aware of his abilities again .
2 Revan in a Duel with Malek pre KotoR showed him whos his daddy .

I give nothing to Revan and take nothing from him .
In a fight with Mace , I honestly think Mace would win . Not because of Achievements or powers , Just in the end , Mace took down the Evilest Being ever in StarWars and you do not need Canon to show that . No one in the history of lore in SW has been so evil as Palpatine .
Mace was good at using his lightsaber to guard against Sidious and he would have done the same with Revan who also relies decently on his Force Abilities Canonly discribed in the Novel and the Games , Not to mention Revan who seems to let his use of Darkside abilities pull him into the Darkside over and over would have met his end to Vaapad.

I am not going to say it would be a easy or hard fight and this is all JUST MY OPINION . My opinion is not backed by Canon , as this fight never happened and Revan is largely a unknown for a character 10years old and in 3 games and how many books and comics .

Revan was great enough that canonly Bane cared to learn from him, and that is all that matters to me .
I agree that the finer points of Revan's prowess should be explored (not by anyone biased for or against), because right now we know that Revan was a skilled duelist and powerful in the Force.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Airmo's Avatar


Airmo
11.23.2012 , 04:58 PM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
It is still quite the accomplishment, but we must remember that Revan was always better than Malak. We see this before when Revan "removed" Malak's jaw during their first confrontation.
I wonder how Malak ate.. I guess he must have..

*Sunglasses*

Forced food down his throat
"Darkness is a friend, an ally. Darkness allows us to understand others, to see what they value when they believe no one else is looking. It allows us to be honest with ourselves, to express those values that we would disavow in the light. The light blinds us. It is only in the dark that we see clearly."

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.23.2012 , 05:03 PM | #190
Quote: Originally Posted by Airmo View Post
I wonder how Malak ate.. I guess he must have..

*Sunglasses*

Forced food down his throat

Probably through a feeding tube , I imagine how ever he ate eventually someone would have seen it as a weakness and used it against him .

I would say my examples in how I think he ate but I am unsure if it would get a warning from Mods and its not worth it
Darth Mefit
Sith Marauder
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