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To the Anonymous Insider


Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
07.22.2012 , 01:06 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
No, the thing is, back during the early days on these forums (and even before these forums, when things were still just rumored the BioWare MMO) people were vouching for how they did not want this to turn into a new WoW, how they wanted it to stay true to the nature of Mass Effect or KOTOR (both mentioned quite often as potential settings for the MMO).

This held on till very late in beta. It was not till after launch, when suddenly a big number of those people who vouched for as to how the game should not turn into a second WoW rapidly vanished, and the true consumer base was left behind. Those who actually wanted to play an MMO.

That's what you get for listening to that vocal minority pre-launch too much, 90% of them will ditch you in the wink of an eye and never form your potential customer population.

EA most likely was more aware of this than BioWare, and to be quite frank, it probably is part of the reason as to why certain heads have been rolling lately. The usual overhead is going out, but certain key figures are going to be replaced with no doubt.

The solid base game is there, now there's just the fluff to expand onto it.
There were just as many posts about the game not being an MMO as there were what you said. There were many posts saying the game was too single player and not enough group stuff. It was all there.

meatlocker's Avatar


meatlocker
07.22.2012 , 01:06 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Daethorz View Post
Another thing that has boggled me, is how ship "gear" is, sure you can upgrade your ship, but there's almost no incentive to, there's no engame, there's nothing new, it dosent make your ship look better. If I'm not mistaken one of the largest fun factors of gearing up, is the new-upgraded look, and I really hope swoop racing wouldn't or won't follow the same guideline as it would cut the amusement factor like a knife.
You obviously don't play space combat.
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turjake's Avatar


turjake
07.22.2012 , 01:11 PM | #53
People dont know what they do want until someone gives it to them (Steve Jobs, I think). That doesnt stop people wanting all kinds of things. Sometimes you need people with a vision to get anything sensible done. If you try to design by a committee, you will get something with lowest common denominator, something like wow where most of the stuff is copied from somewhere. It is kind of pointless to start to compete with wow trying to create what they already have, most likely you will lose since they have been doing it a lot longer.

DrDon's Avatar


DrDon
07.22.2012 , 01:11 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Daethorz View Post
when I see almost none of the perks from KOTOR that we want.

a Capital always takes away the lone wolf feeling in a mmo because there are hundreds to thousands of people there sitting around.

differance is SWTOR is a MMO! if you want the "lone wolf feeling, MMO's arnt for you.

Selethar's Avatar


Selethar
07.22.2012 , 01:25 PM | #55
To add my nickel (taxes being what they are, 2 cents just isn't enough anymore)

The BIGGEST failure of this game, being it was a Star Wars theme, is the pitiful space component. Yes, KOTOR had almost no space game but it was a single player game about a Jedi. So yeah, I would expect that. But to not have a comprehensive space game (i.e. not on rails and able to progress your ship just like your character. Even up to possible cap ship command) was a huge loss.

We can debate the lack of WoW features till we all die but the above is what stunned me the most. That being said, I am still playing and, overall, I enjoy the game. The cries of "no content" were bogus from the start. This game launched with more content then anything I have seen (and yes, I've played several other titles myself).

Too bad it is an EA product. Corporations are so fixated on quartery statements and imaginary pre-calculated ROI (the true weakness of the American business model imo) that it will be a long road to keep this game running for long unless there is some growth. This title will also be at the mercy of the performance of other titles/divisions so slumps in EA Sports etc will just as easily doom this game as whatever it does in it's own right.

Daethorz's Avatar


Daethorz
07.22.2012 , 01:29 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by turjake View Post
People dont know what they do want until someone gives it to them (Steve Jobs, I think). That doesnt stop people wanting all kinds of things. Sometimes you need people with a vision to get anything sensible done. If you try to design by a committee, you will get something with lowest common denominator, something like wow where most of the stuff is copied from somewhere. It is kind of pointless to start to compete with wow trying to create what they already have, most likely you will lose since they have been doing it a lot longer.
Exactly.

The lone wolf comment, I ment KOTOR gave me the sence of being a lone wolf. Me, my small group of companions v the universe.
it also has alot to do with "Ill do what i want when i want to!", like Ima go gambling on nar shadda!, the sence of Freedom and non linear content Everyone has to do Every day.
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Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
07.22.2012 , 01:32 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Selethar View Post
To add my nickel (taxes being what they are, 2 cents just isn't enough anymore)

The BIGGEST failure of this game, being it was a Star Wars theme, is the pitiful space component. Yes, KOTOR had almost no space game but it was a single player game about a Jedi. So yeah, I would expect that. But to not have a comprehensive space game (i.e. not on rails and able to progress your ship just like your character. Even up to possible cap ship command) was a huge loss.

We can debate the lack of WoW features till we all die but the above is what stunned me the most. That being said, I am still playing and, overall, I enjoy the game. The cries of "no content" were bogus from the start. This game launched with more content then anything I have seen (and yes, I've played several other titles myself).

Too bad it is an EA product. Corporations are so fixated on quartery statements and imaginary pre-calculated ROI (the true weakness of the American business model imo) that it will be a long road to keep this game running for long unless there is some growth. This title will also be at the mercy of the performance of other titles/divisions so slumps in EA Sports etc will just as easily doom this game as whatever it does in it's own right.
I agreed with you untill I got to your middle paragraph. The cries of "not enough content" are not bogus. 100's of thousands of players left because they ran out of stuff to do and got bored. That being the case, then Id say lack of content is far from bogus.

Daethorz's Avatar


Daethorz
07.22.2012 , 01:36 PM | #58
Sorry, but i don't find a new operation to replace a already existing operation to be Content.

WoW Example: Dragonsoul Replaced Firelands that Replaced Bastion & BWD.

A New Planet = Content
New Feature giving players something to do = Content

Anything that adds More Playtime to the game is content, with the current track of mmos, they just replace a old raid/operation with a new one, they refresh the content that is already there.

A new operation or raid is a minimal form of content, many players won't even play them, and eventually it may become a farming ground, like the group finder system, and that gets dull, really fast.
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Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
07.22.2012 , 01:48 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Daethorz View Post
Sorry, but i don't find a new operation to replace a already existing operation to be Content.

WoW Example: Dragonsoul Replaced Firelands that Replaced Bastion & BWD.

A New Planet = Content
New Feature giving players something to do = Content

Anything that adds More Playtime to the game is content, with the current track of mmos, they just replace a old raid/operation with a new one, they refresh the content that is already there.

A new operation or raid is a minimal form of content, many players won't even play them, and eventually it may become a farming ground, like the group finder system, and that gets dull, really fast.
So repeatable raids is not content to you... yet a 1 shot planet is?

Adding a raid is just as much a content add is adding a planet. A planet in this game can be finished in 1 day. If you have 5 alts... 5 days. If you take 2 days then 10 days.

I could easily just turn your post to the opposite and it would be the same thing....

Sorry, but i don't find a new planet to replace a already existing planet to be Content.

WoW Example: dont know WoW so... " new continent to replace old continent"

A New Raid = Content
New Feature giving players something to do = Content

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
07.22.2012 , 01:48 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Daethorz View Post
Sorry, but i don't find a new operation to replace a already existing operation to be Content.

WoW Example: Dragonsoul Replaced Firelands that Replaced Bastion & BWD.

A New Planet = Content
New Feature giving players something to do = Content

Anything that adds More Playtime to the game is content, with the current track of mmos, they just replace a old raid/operation with a new one, they refresh the content that is already there.

A new operation or raid is a minimal form of content, many players won't even play them, and eventually it may become a farming ground, like the group finder system, and that gets dull, really fast.
And it's these sort of ideas which BioWare listened to too much during the development years. Sure, a new planet is content, for 4 hours. Then it's done. What then? Another new planet the next day?

No, game development can't out perform the speed by which gamers go through it. Single player games are 'beaten' in 15 - 20 hours on average, if you're lucky you strike a game where you take about 30 - 40 hours to do it. For an MMO, such figures are nothing. With the multiple story lines, SWTOR can offer that to a certain extent, it taking about 100 hours to reach cap due to a certain grind factor along, that times 8. But instead people will just say it's all pretty much the same anyway, so that trick doesn't hold up.

The MMO crowd, or the P2P one at least, simply isn't interested in questing for the big part of it. The entire community has based its existence around 3 pillars:
- PvE raiding
- PvP unranked
- PvP ranked

The 4th pillar found in it afterwards is the social factor, however that has never been a true driving force in thriving MMO's in the west. Only secondary to a core crowd of players those would slowly drop in.
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