To the Anonymous Insider

I'm responding to the more like KOTOR.

This can mean many things. Instead of MMO vs. single player, maybe they are addressing the originality of the content in KOTOR vs. SWTOR. What I wish it could mean, is that we can explore new worlds with new cultures that are surprises, as this you did in KOTOR.

We are just getting what I feel seems like watered-down ersatz versions of Clone Troopers and Imperials genre copied from the moviews, while the KOTOR has truly unique and different feel of the Sith.

When I played KOTOR, I was enthralled by the different armor/costumes of the Sith. I was so excited to solve some ancient mystery, discover some ancient races, explore new planets and cultures that had significant importance in the plot, and also explore very unique original content, such as secret assassin society, Czerka Corporation, etc.

When I showed the trailers to SWTOR to friends, they also felt that the material was not all that original, as it looks like Clone Troopers vs. Imperials.

Im not much of Blizzard product consumer so to speak, hardly touched WoW, but i did bought Diablo 3. In my gaming experience i have never seen online game plummet so fast. I think it will go into history with alot copys sold online game that lost its majority players withing just month or little more.

I agree there are hard time for online games currently and all have to really push alot work into their products to keep their playerbase or even grow. GW2 is one of exception trying to sell it without subscription based online game.
SWTOR will have really hit or miss timezone near end of this year. It will be one chance only to stay alive. Reason is simple, in all the MMO history (except WoW) if you loose alot subscribers withing short amount of time and having P2P model then gaining back subscribers or let alone new players is dead impossible.

Time will tell soon.

Hehe. Three years from now when all the MMOs are f2play you'll say . . . "well, he made a lucky guess."

You guys who think free2play is a cancer are just old farts.

I am sad to inform you after Aug 17th, you will no longer be able to look me up for a apology. So they better go FTP before then. lol!
Some will however be glad I am not around. I do wish them a fun time playing TOR and hope it continues to give them enjoyment.

Hey!! I am a old fart and I donot think FTP is a cancer. So watch who you are associating the "old farts" with.

I am not convinced TOR will go FTP ..esp anytime soon. And I am not interested in that model at this time myself. But it is not a dumb idea and some MMO's have done very well with it. Depending on what type of FTP model it is, I may come back if it was offered. *shrugs.

Hey dude I respect that fact that you were civil and my intent is to be so below, it is a pretty cool conversation were having, I like to know who is actually enjoying the game and why, anyways here is my response, cheers.

Fact is SWTOR failed for many more reasons than I mentioned. 400,000 people have their own story of how SWTOR failed. They tried to be everything to everyone while not listening to anything they had to say, until they started to leave en masse that is.

They were trying to please the SWG guys, the WoW guys the KOTOR guys and the Veteran MMO guys(EQ UO DAOC) ALL while telling us they weren't going to be like WoW and telling the press that they were going to be like WoW.

I know 7 people that got to end game, saw that BioWare was not going to address their concerns anytime soon and promptly left. As GM of a WoW guild I had 20 people that weren't playing with me, that I raid lead in WoW, waiting to see if I was building a guild, if SWTOR was worth it. That is my sampling size. 7 out of 27? So 25%? 25% of WoW players I know tried SWTOR and left because it is a single player game, the developers refuse to even talk about issues let alone address them, there was nothing to do, PVP was and still is a stunned mess. And to drive the point home, they polished a turd with voice acting.

What are you talking about? We had specific planets for leveling from 20 - 25...35-40...etc. You telling me me you could avoid Balmora or the most boring planet ever, alderan? You cant and, for the most part, it was linear. The Class quests are linear, the Bonus quests are linear, you do them and then discover, hey I have to do the side quests to level up enough to the next planet. I remember grinding out levels. We couldn't do dungeons because they required that you have quests and you couldn't repeat them and we still had trouble getting everyone to the same instance because it was still buggy.


Exactly, you got to RP, bully for you, terrible for my space bar. There is a REASON that in WoW only 23(1%) of their 237 servers are RP, most people are not there to RP. They are there to be on a team and or socialize.

See the answer above. BioWare just totally missed the team and socialization point of an MMO, so hard.

Dude dont even consider what I said about this, consider instead the tremendous amount of wasted money on voice acting that could ahve been used to develop the game, have balanced finished Ilum and PVP. More gear models for us to choose from, more everything, things to do at end game, mini games etc. SOOO much money wasted on the GIMMICK of voice acting. besides, we will never know will we, those other quests were never made.

Oh so you had to grind mobs too.

I DID NOT want more story. Story is ALL SWTOR HAS. PERIOD. The mod system was broke, they were insisting that their artists feelings didn't get hurt so we were forced to have the good ole clown look know for far too long in every MMO ever, PVP was broken and unbalanced. All there WAS to do was reroll and hope things got fixed.

It is great that you stand behind their thought process. See I didn't want to level every class in the game and then work on a main. I knew what my main class was going to be. I even leveled a Sin to 48. I gave it a LOT more of a chance than most games. And hey, I hate to admit it but I LOVED DA2... I am , or was, an avid BioWare FAN! BG to NWN to DAO to ME, ME3, DA2...man let me tell you that bar was set high, I understand how investors or EA just let them do whatever, but man oh man, the bigger they are... (I DO NOT blame EA for this failure by the way.)

See, but most others DO agree with me, in their own way, SWTOR failed to keep them interested. SWTOR is going to be a small niche MMO that is F2P and you will probably have pay to win. Me and my ilk saw this comming once we got to end game and there wasnt anything there and the developers refused to even have a discussion about it, let alone when they totally shat on the raiders, but that is a whole other thread about how they lost the majority of the WoW playerbase that they drew.

I doubt that after the 6 month subscribers unsub that they have 250,000 subs.

It is OBVIOUS that this game started out as KOTOR 3 and was shoehorned into an MMO. If I am wrong about its inception then I can tell you that I felt like I was playing KOTOR/Dragon Age/ME2 the whole time, as should be expected from KOTOR 3. But it was just the wrong move.

World of Warcraft (almost) learned in WotLK that players get very tired of RP, so much so that they had to go back and include a clicky in ToC and other raids so we could get attempts in. Now, and I am blaming this on SWTOR, they have a 3 minute RP session before we pull Ultraxion and a 4 minute RP session before we pull Deathwing(not counting the cinematics that we are luckily able to have not play via the addon BigWigs). It is annoying. It works in a single player because you play it once and move on.

That kinda sums up a lot of what went wrong, "It works in single player, not in an MMO".

EQ2 tried DLC, it didn't work because then you have multiple DLCs and players simply cant play with each other becasue this player doenst have DLC X etc etc. They thought it would force others to buy DLC instead people simply didnt buy it and complained about waiting for an xpac or unsubbed.

It just baffles me, they do not get it, SOE and Blizzard have been there and done that and here we are with retard executives that think they are slick and can con players into a F2P scam or DLC scam. And that is what they are, scams, they are....I wont get into how F2P is a scam akin to ponzi schemes and how micro-transactions should be illegal...thats another thread.

I dunno, I don't think their vision was the issue, no addons for example is wonderful IF the UI works well enough.

The problem to me was more that there were weaknesses in the release game that such things might have covered..... but in all honestly probably not, and either way a better solution would have been to have directly strenghtened the weaknesses.

The leveling exp can be as lonely or mini-game filled a mess as anyone can make but an mmo thrives on it's end game, it's the lure and the staying power that defines the bigger mmo's maybe when bioware fully realizes that they can start climbing again. Reaching the level cap shouldn't be the end of an mmo, and with it's current set of content and the tools to access it that's just what reaching the level cap is for most players. The end.

Very well said. SWtOR has minimal content when you reach end game. So minimal that when you hit 50 BW might as well have popped up a big splash screen saying "Sorry, we ran out of game here. If you want, you can do the same few things every day as long as you continue to pay us.."