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To the Anonymous Insider


Daethorz's Avatar


Daethorz
07.22.2012 , 08:26 AM | #1
“EA blames us and to some extent they’re right to. But it was fan feedback from the day we opened the forums that encouraged us to design it for the fans the way it is and that included making it more like Kotor then an MMO like Wow,” he stated mentioning that gamers actually wanted SWTOR to be more like Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR), a single player role playing game by Bioware before it was acquired by EA, rather than World of Warcraft (WoW).
-http://blogs.bettor.com/Anonymous-Bi...Update-a173317

From this post it makes it sound like Bioware turned the ship around and constructed this game to be more like KOTOR, when I see almost none of the perks from KOTOR that we want.

Kotor had many mini-games, not only that but KOTOR had more of a lone-wolf feeling, a Capital always takes away the lone wolf feeling in a mmo because there are hundreds to thousands of people there sitting around.


Things I and Many Other People Want that Correlates with KOTOR:
  1. Swoop Racing, (MMO Style, Upgrades, gear tiers, new tracks, etc)
  2. Pazzak
  3. Amusing Mini-Games that take up time in general, we want to take a back road instead of staying on the main road where all we have to do is Operations, Warzones and Flashpoints, and Everyone's Favorite, The Endless daily grind!

I Simply no-longer understand MMO Companys, in the early days WoW Employees would sit in a circle and come up with cool ideas, does anyone do this anymore? or is a large list of things handed down from One person at the top who doesn't even play the game.

With Multiple different minigames NOT located on the Fleet, we would have more of a reason to go around to different planets, go to Nar Shadda to go gambling, Go to Tatooine to go to the universes biggest and most famous swoop tracks. The point is the engame of swtor has turned into a COPY of world of warcraft, so if anyone to blame, its the people who come up with the content plans for SWTOR, because they have ignored the things people actually WANTED from kotor.

Another thing that has boggled me, is how ship "gear" is, sure you can upgrade your ship, but there's almost no incentive to, there's no engame, there's nothing new, it dosent make your ship look better. If I'm not mistaken one of the largest fun factors of gearing up, is the new-upgraded look, and I really hope swoop racing wouldn't or won't follow the same guideline as it would cut the amusement factor like a knife.
Daethz Anoseff The Bastion
Intel i5 3570k ::: Asus P8Z77-V LK ::: 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 1600 Mhz ::: Crucial M4 256GB SSD ::: EVGA Superclocked 550ti 1GB ::: Corsair 750w Semi-Modular PSU
My List of Suggestions

Styxx's Avatar


Styxx
07.22.2012 , 08:35 AM | #2
Quote:
...he stated mentioning that gamers actually wanted SWTOR to be more like Knights of the Old Republic
Here`s the thing.. he THINKS that gamers wanted... just like Bioware did. 7 months later, when story can`t maintain a healthy population and their subs are going South.. they are beginning to sober up.

You see.. people actually wanted a "real MMO", not KoToR with a sub, because, at the end of the day, a MMO can only be a MMO and can only break so many rules...

Daethorz's Avatar


Daethorz
07.22.2012 , 08:38 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Styxx View Post
Here`s the thing.. he THINKS that gamers wanted... just like Bioware did. 7 months later, when story can`t maintain a healthy population and their subs are going South.. they are beginning to sober up.

You see.. people actually wanted a "real MMO", not KoToR with a sub, because, at the end of the day, a MMO can only be a MMO and can only break so many rules...
People are mistaking a MMO for a WoW.
I want a new MMO bioware not a new WoW.
That's exactly what this game has become, Space WoW with Space Battles, it dosen't even really have a starwars feel to it because of how similar their engames are.

And untill someone in bioware figures out the people don't want a Exact Copy of WoW, they will continue going downhill. Makeb @ EA Content is just more of the same old, itll burn out just as fast as the current endgame did.
@ They should listen to me, a gamer, Who Knows what people want, even if they don't know what they want themselves, heck i plan on being a game designer someday, i just find it sad, like people standing in the fire.
Daethz Anoseff The Bastion
Intel i5 3570k ::: Asus P8Z77-V LK ::: 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 1600 Mhz ::: Crucial M4 256GB SSD ::: EVGA Superclocked 550ti 1GB ::: Corsair 750w Semi-Modular PSU
My List of Suggestions

Erasimus's Avatar


Erasimus
07.22.2012 , 08:56 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Daethorz View Post
People are mistaking a MMO for a WoW.
I want a new MMO bioware not a new WoW.
That's exactly what this game has become, Space WoW with Space Battles, it dosen't even really have a starwars feel to it because of how similar their engames are.

And untill someone in bioware figures out the people don't want a Exact Copy of WoW, they will continue going downhill. Makeb @ EA Content is just more of the same old, itll burn out just as fast as the current endgame did.
@ They should listen to me, a gamer, Who Knows what people want, even if they don't know what they want themselves, heck i plan on being a game designer someday, i just find it sad, like people standing in the fire.
Why people feel that their opinion is held by the majority I'll never know. Just as a counterpoint to the above. I've played WoW since release, and SWTOR is definitely, in my opinion, not WoW in space. If it was my son would still be subscribed, my grandson would still be playing, and I wouldn't be considering cancelling my subscription.

I watched the Star Wars movies when they were released but would by no means classify myself as a Star Wars fan. I neven played KoTAR and until I came to this game I never even knew it existed. I've been playing on-line games and MMOs for 10 years. Including LoTRO, AION, Rift, WoW, TERA, etc. You would be surprised how many others there are like me.

If I were to guess, people like me are who BIO/EA was hoping to attract and retain, and it doesn't seem to be happening.

I don't want a single player, lone wolf game. I've enjoyed that part of the game, but now that I'm almost done with the story-lines I'll probably unsubscribe soon.

WoW has an enormous number of things to do outside of PvP and raiding. Events, some weekly some monthly some on special occasions. Achievements, pets to collect, Archaeology, and on and on. The world is interesting to explore and engaging. Even 8 years later I enjoy occasionally just logging in to WoW and flying around. Even with fewer people per sever if feels more populated to me.

Honestly, as much as I liked some of the story, I now space bar through everything except the class quests I haven't done yet. The could have spent some of that voice over money more productively elsewhere.
"Give light and the darkness will disappear of itself."

Valkirus's Avatar


Valkirus
07.22.2012 , 09:02 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Erasimus View Post
Why people feel that their opinion is held by the majority I'll never know. Just as a counterpoint to the above. I've played WoW since release, and SWTOR is definitely, in my opinion, not WoW in space. If it was my son would still be subscribed, my grandson would still be playing, and I wouldn't be considering cancelling my subscription.

I watched the Star Wars movies when they were released but would by no means classify myself as a Star Wars fan. I neven played KoTAR and until I came to this game I never even knew it existed. I've been playing on-line games and MMOs for 10 years. Including LoTRO, AION, Rift, WoW, TERA, etc. You would be surprised how many others there are like me.

If I were to guess, people like me are who BIO/EA was hoping to attract and retain, and it doesn't seem to be happening.

I don't want a single player, lone wolf game. I've enjoyed that part of the game, but now that I'm almost done with the story-lines I'll probably unsubscribe soon.

WoW has an enormous number of things to do outside of PvP and raiding. Events, some weekly some monthly some on special occasions. Achievements, pets to collect, Archaeology, and on and on. The world is interesting to explore and engaging. Even 8 years later I enjoy occasionally just logging in to WoW and flying around. Even with fewer people per sever if feels more populated to me.
This. Well said. IF BioWare tried to copy WoW, they did a poor job of it. It is in some ways better than WoW, but falls short in other ways. IF they had taken the best parts of WoW and then added what TOR has which is better, then TOR indeed would have been a much better game.
Trust is something which is earned.

Hyde_v's Avatar


Hyde_v
07.22.2012 , 09:10 AM | #6
Who's this guy?
"And they probably redesigned the whole sickbay too. I know engineers. They love to change things." -Dr. McCoy, ST:TMP

Durasturan's Avatar


Durasturan
07.22.2012 , 09:11 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Daethorz View Post
People are mistaking a MMO for a WoW.
I want a new MMO bioware not a new WoW.
That's exactly what this <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">game</a> has become, Space WoW with Space Battles, it dosen't even really have a starwars feel to it because of how similar their engames are.

And untill someone in bioware figures out the people don't want a Exact Copy of WoW, they will continue going downhill. Makeb @ EA Content is just more of the same old, itll burn out just as fast as the current endgame did.
@ They should listen to me, a gamer, Who Knows what people want, even if they don't know what they want themselves, heck i plan on being a game designer someday, i just find it sad, like people standing in the fire.
See here's the main line problem with your line of reasoning. HOW don't you want the game to be like wow. You see I hear this all the time: "It didn't innovate enough blah blah blah." But people like you NEVER say exactly what it is you don't want and exactly what it is you want. It's always just vague nonsense never concrete details and until the community can start to give concrete and specific problems, and REASONS those individual things ARE problems, how can you expect BW to change anything?

Oh, and as far as this game being an exact copy of WoW? BS. As someone who played wow from launch through Cata, this game is MORE unlike WoW than every AAA mmo to release since WoW launched.

GooseGrims's Avatar


GooseGrims
07.22.2012 , 09:13 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Daethorz View Post
“EA blames us and to some extent they’re right to. But it was fan feedback from the day we opened the forums that encouraged us to design it for the fans the way it is and that included making it more like Kotor then an MMO like Wow,” he stated mentioning that gamers actually wanted SWTOR to be more like Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR), a single player role playing game by Bioware before it was acquired by EA, rather than World of Warcraft (WoW).
-http://blogs.bettor.com/Anonymous-Bi...Update-a173317

From this post it makes it sound like Bioware turned the ship around and constructed this game to be more like KOTOR, when I see almost none of the perks from KOTOR that we want.

Kotor had many mini-games, not only that but KOTOR had more of a lone-wolf feeling, a Capital always takes away the lone wolf feeling in a mmo because there are hundreds to thousands of people there sitting around.


Things I and Many Other People Want that Correlates with KOTOR:
  1. Swoop Racing, (MMO Style, Upgrades, gear tiers, new tracks, etc)
  2. Pazzak
  3. Amusing Mini-Games that take up time in general, we want to take a back road instead of staying on the main road where all we have to do is Operations, Warzones and Flashpoints, and Everyone's Favorite, The Endless daily grind!

I Simply no-longer understand MMO Companys, in the early days WoW Employees would sit in a circle and come up with cool ideas, does anyone do this anymore? or is a large list of things handed down from One person at the top who doesn't even play the game.

With Multiple different minigames NOT located on the Fleet, we would have more of a reason to go around to different planets, go to Nar Shadda to go gambling, Go to Tatooine to go to the universes biggest and most famous swoop tracks. The point is the engame of swtor has turned into a COPY of world of warcraft, so if anyone to blame, its the people who come up with the content plans for SWTOR, because they have ignored the things people actually WANTED from kotor.

Another thing that has boggled me, is how ship "gear" is, sure you can upgrade your ship, but there's almost no incentive to, there's no engame, there's nothing new, it dosent make your ship look better. If I'm not mistaken one of the largest fun factors of gearing up, is the new-upgraded look, and I really hope swoop racing wouldn't or won't follow the same guideline as it would cut the amusement factor like a knife.
yea that announcment made me think this game really is dying, i mean the PTS forums and the Beta test forums were filled with all sorts of things BW ignored from bug reports to suggestions and then they blame what player base they have left for the state of the game.

mabey if they would fix bugs and add the things the player base wants we wouldnt be in this situation.
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Sathid's Avatar


Sathid
07.22.2012 , 09:16 AM | #9
Never played WoW but iam a seven year vet of EQ2,and no i do not want to play a "Lone Wolf" game for a sub price,but i am also very very tired of raids for gear and the constant upgrade grind with that.

What i was hoping for and still wish for is adventure yah know in space and not some dungeon crawling like i have done for years,and chance encounters with opposite faction and being surprised for the PvP aspect.

Maybe some kool quests that require a group to travel on only one persons ship to a destination and while traveling there some Imperial ships attack and my group mates man the turrets.

Pod racing,open world PvP areas that are there for a limited time and reward those who fought there etc.

JonathanCP's Avatar


JonathanCP
07.22.2012 , 09:18 AM | #10
People are still believing this "insider" thing is true?
Lol
If your thread title is not a variation on "open letter... BIOWARE,... fail... NOW!", then you are a fanboy