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"because your bad"- it's not an argument

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
"because your bad"- it's not an argument

lpsmash's Avatar


lpsmash
07.21.2012 , 10:57 PM | #61
Trying to show to people on the internet that ad hominem is not a valid argument.

I admire your resolve, but it is doomed to fail.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
07.22.2012 , 01:50 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by FodderofCannon View Post
I understand a lot of you kids have never gone to college or studied any form of logical thinking, so maybe you think this is actually a reasonble argument. I mean the motivation for someone posting is imporatant right? They are bad so they complain about something. You think because they have motivation to post something that invalidates their opinon.

NO. Just no. Their motivation is irrelevant to the argument they use. It is the evidence that they present that matters. So even if you could prove they are the worst player on the planet; IT STILL WOULD NOT MATTER. It is the evidence they present in their argument that matters, you have to deal with that: not "if they are bad or not".

In logic this is what we call argument ad hominem, or "attack of the person". I know politicians do it all the time, I know in grade 6 school yard they do it, it is used all the time, but in LOGIC it is a fallacy.

Any time you use it: You FAIL.

http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/person.html
Except that real life doesn't work like that. When you're sick do you go to the doctor, or go talk to a random person about why you're feeling sick? You'd go see a doctor. Why? Because the advice/information you get from a doctor is far more likely to be of use and accurate than what some random *** person says.

So when someone complains about something in this game, it matters if they are bad or not when the complaint is regarding class balance.

kjkdollarbanny's Avatar


kjkdollarbanny
07.22.2012 , 02:49 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by FodderofCannon View Post
I understand a lot of you kids have never gone to college or studied any form of logical thinking, so maybe you think this is actually a reasonble argument. I mean the motivation for someone posting is imporatant right? They are bad so they complain about something. You think because they have motivation to post something that invalidates their opinon.

NO. Just no. Their motivation is irrelevant to the argument they use. It is the evidence that they present that matters. So even if you could prove they are the worst player on the planet; IT STILL WOULD NOT MATTER. It is the evidence they present in their argument that matters, you have to deal with that: not "if they are bad or not".

In logic this is what we call argument ad hominem, or "attack of the person". I know politicians do it all the time, I know in grade 6 school yard they do it, it is used all the time, but in LOGIC it is a fallacy.

Any time you use it: You FAIL.

http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/person.html
i completed university. and now im engeneer(not kinda useless guy like most nowadays)
and "you are bad" is a good argument, when you know something, but dont want to bother yourself explaining it to a guy who not deserves to know truth.
Its like with resolve system: it works, but some guys have no brains to understand how.
why need i bother explaining?

Elear's Avatar


Elear
07.22.2012 , 03:27 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by FodderofCannon View Post
I understand a lot of you kids have never gone to college or studied any form of logical thinking, so maybe you think this is actually a reasonble argument. I mean the motivation for someone posting is imporatant right? They are bad so they complain about something. You think because they have motivation to post something that invalidates their opinon.
Quote: Originally Posted by Twor View Post
You should probably also refrain from insulting people like you did in the first line. As what you said means more or less the same as what you said we shouldn't say? Just you are taking your statement into real life.
Quote: Originally Posted by FodderofCannon View Post
Who have I insulted? My comments were not directed at any specific person. So this claim fails. Also there are simply many people that do not have the education to know about the rules of logic. This is a fact, as this board, any many, many, more like it prove.
This exchange made me laugh so hard. It's not insult if it's not directed at specific person, that's fine.
So, to keep with facts, if person plays Deception Assasin, and says he can't kill this or that, you can't tell him that he can't play, that would be an insult. But, you should tell him that most people can't play Deception Assasin properly(that's a fact, Devs said so), making it not directed at him as specific person, so valid and entirely not an insult.


Let's try to put our newfound skill to use:
People that point out lesser education of other people generally have very low self-esteem, due to being bad or other reason they are not proud of.(That's a fact.)
Smart people don't try too hard to win internet agruments.(That's a fact.)

Hey, it's easy!

Twor's Avatar


Twor
07.22.2012 , 03:40 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Elear View Post

Let's try to put our newfound skill to use:
People that point out lesser education of other people generally have very low self-esteem, due to being bad or other reason they are not proud of.(That's a fact.)
Smart people don't try too hard to win internet agruments.(That's a fact.)

Hey, it's easy!
I agree with this, and since it is a generalisation it is not an insult but a fact?
Didn't the op post that somewhere along his lines as well when pointed out he was insulting?Found it!
Or probably when we use it its a veiled insult. When he does its a generalisation.

Quote: Originally Posted by FodderofCannon View Post
Who have I called uneducated?

People in general?? lol. Fair much?
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
BW motto- If it ain't broke, break it. If it is broke, take it away.

vimm's Avatar


vimm
07.22.2012 , 04:15 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Skolops View Post
I'm pretty sure you're just bad at arguing, so that's the end of whatever point you were trying to make.
This is very obviously satirical in nature, and anyone who took it seriously should wake up, lol.
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

vimm's Avatar


vimm
07.22.2012 , 04:16 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by FodderofCannon View Post
Cough.
Go on...
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

vimm's Avatar


vimm
07.22.2012 , 04:18 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by kjkdollarbanny View Post
i completed university. and now im engeneer(not kinda useless guy like most nowadays)
and "you are bad" is a good argument, when you know something, but dont want to bother yourself explaining it to a guy who not deserves to know truth.
Its like with resolve system: it works, but some guys have no brains to understand how.
why need i bother explaining?
I guess it wasn't an English-speaking university.
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

Twor's Avatar


Twor
07.22.2012 , 04:54 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by vimm View Post
I guess it wasn't an English-speaking university.
C'mon not everyone has english as their native language. I wouldn't call you out if you'd make some mistakes while communicating in german with me either
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
BW motto- If it ain't broke, break it. If it is broke, take it away.

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
07.22.2012 , 05:13 AM | #70
Gidoru "NOT" failing grammar....

Quote: Originally Posted by Gidoru View Post
Spelling and grammar are things someone who is educated and has gone to college should quite adept at. Particularly given that the difference between your and you're is something you should have learned before high school.

Please continue thinking yourself brilliant because you have taken possible 1 or 2 Philosphy courses. Judging by the fact you cannot spell, it must not have been a very good college.
You have at least 2 huge errors in the above quote (should BE quite adept at) and (Philosphy is not a word)

Second post from Gidoru with errors.
Quote: Originally Posted by Gidoru View Post
Pretty substantial difference between making a typo and error of a single letter while thinking of something else and not knowing the difference your and you're.

Also a pretty substanial difference between you and i given that you are calling people uneducated and then showing yourself to be. Whereas i have not done the same.
(and AN error of a single letter) and of course, the good old forgot to capitalize the I....

The OP is 100% correct. there is a fallacy in logical arguments that is used constantly on these forums. L2P = Argumentum ad hominem =/= a logical rebuttal.

The fact that people have a go at his sentence structure/grammar is a signifier that these forums are filled with people who don't argue logically.
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian