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Why is lvl10-49 fun but 50 isn't?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why is lvl10-49 fun but 50 isn't?

Dencre's Avatar


Dencre
07.21.2012 , 04:24 PM | #61
10-49 if fun cause most of them dont know what they are doing yet. When you hit 50 you are basically back to lvl 1 and you need to grind out that gear plus the people you are playing tend to know how the game works. Once you get the gear and have good team mates you will have lots of fun.

You need full BM and a WH weapon to stand a chance, and even then if you go against a Warlord be ready to loose.
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
07.21.2012 , 05:08 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by DroidDreamer View Post
Sure, and some specs don't get really cool abilities until level 50, like the tank ability to jump to protect your team member.

But so what? I don't mean that sarcastically. Game play is still more fun and strategic in the lowbie bracket, even from 10-20, in my opinion. Sure, you're not really fully competitive until about 20 to 32, but it's still more fun.
Well people really overestimate the effect of extra skills for high level do. For example say you put a full purple level 10 Arsenal Merc. You don't even have Tracer Missiles so you can only spam Power Shots, but those Power Shots will hurt A LOT and they will kill people. A level 10 Marauder with full purples will do like 3500 tooltip damage with Ravage and that's an insane amount of damage for the 10-49 bracket. As long as you didn't pick a late blossomer type of spec (for example, Tankasins literally have nothing until level 35 or so) you'll do fine even at a lowish level assuming your gear is adequate. Now if you're in quest green at level 10 you probably wouldn't do anything too useful, but a level 49 in quest green is also surprisingly weak too.

magi_melcior's Avatar


magi_melcior
07.21.2012 , 05:22 PM | #63
Both lvl 50 an and lvl 10-49 can be fun, or they can be either boring as hell or frustrating as ****. Unfortunately lvl 50s seem to get more of the latter 2 rather than the fun one.
It all comes down to gear and team co-ordination. In low lvl gear is irrelevant due to the bolster buff, meaning it is more down to the skill of the individual player rather than what armor he's wearing. Obviously lvl 40s will still have an advantage over a lvl 10 as they will have more skills unlocked and be more familiar with their character's strengths and weaknesses. However I have seen some brilliant players doing some amazing things with low lvl characters, any Jedi Shadow who properly uses their stealth and CCs is a danger no matter what level they are.
At lvl 50 gear becomes the single most important thing, if the 2 teams have similar gear lvls then it will be close fought and exciting match, however if one team heavily outgears the other, they are most likely going to steam roller them (unless they're really terrible) which I find incredibly boring (if I'm on the team doing the steam rolling) or frustrating (if my side is getting steam rollered). To make matters worse with random PUGs it doesn't matter how good your gear is, it only matters how good the overall level of the teams gear is, you could be striding out in the very best WH (perhaps with a bit of Campaign thrown in) but if the rest of the team is sporting Recruit plus a bit of BH you're going to get creamed (unless the opposition is similarly geared or just plain crap). How to solve this, that's a question I'm not sure anyone can answer, you could make gear easier to get so everyone gears up quicker (but then there's less incentive to play a WZ, once your full WH), you could put the bolster buff back on to bring all gear up to the same lvl (but then what's the point of PvP armor and the gear grind), or perhaps you could ditch PvP armor altogether (along with expertise) and have everyone playing in PvE armor, but you;d still have gear differences.
The other reason lvl 50s can seem difficult when your fighting in a random PUG is there are far more premades at lvl 50, oh I know you get some at the lower levels too but they are just more prevalent at lvl 50. Coming up against a premade (especially an organized guild with VOIP) can be very difficult. It can be a real struggle to try and fight off a well balanced team, with just the right mix of healers, DPS and tanks, who work well together, know each others strengths, have a decent strategy and don't have to rely on the chat window to co-ordinate, unless they are really awful, and yes I have a terrible premade once, Novare Coast, our PUG vs their guild premade and we captured all 3 positions, they were that bad, or very very under-geared, which is back to the first problem again.......it's all about gear
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Rogoo's Avatar


Rogoo
07.23.2012 , 01:50 PM | #64
It's quite obvious.

Most people like: Skill > Gear

50 PvP is:

Gear > Skill.

Hence

10-49 PvP > 50 PvP

For most people.

/thread
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islander's Avatar


islander
07.23.2012 , 01:51 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by TapSumBatt View Post
I think you are on to something here, I also loved PvP up to the point 50. Now dont get me wrong Im far from horrible and my 50 is geared with 50% BH 50% WH fully augmented.

I still find doing WZ while levelling is much more fun.
I do too, but I think its just level playing field, and you get a lot more WZ noobies in there that are easy pickings. Everyone is equal in expertise. Plus at level 50 you have better players, even the poorly geared are better then your average shlub walking into a 10-49.
Higher level have more skills but it doesn't make lower level players worthless. A level 19 can take out a baddie level 40 with consistency.
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LiveandDieinLA's Avatar


LiveandDieinLA
07.23.2012 , 01:54 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Ronxz View Post
So my guild and I have been talking about this over the past few weeks. We used to be a big pvp guild before 1.3 but since the changes none of us really want to play anymore, we just watch as either hackers run rampant or we lose constantly. Yet we all have alts and absolutely love the pvp in level 10-49 and will spend hours running warzones on our alts to the point several have stopped doing quests once their alt gets into the 40s because they are trying to AVOID level 50 pvp. So we spent some time trying to figure out the difference.

The biggest one we found was that from 10-49 gear really doesn't play a major difference. When we looked at the past expertise bonus we also saw expertise was a straight % buff. 20% increase to damage, healing, and reduction to damage whereas now the difference is significantly skewed in favor of damage based classes. In essence if you have a lot of expertise you kill faster but don't get as much of a healer or damage reduction. I'd like to see us go back to the straight line increase over the tiered system, at least try it on the PTS, so we could see if it helped make the games more fun again. Any other thoughts or observations?
I have a thought. Maybe you guys are bad at pvp? Obviously it isn't fun to lose all the time, and the level of play in the sub 50 warzones is way, way, way lower than it is in level 50 RWZs.
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islander's Avatar


islander
07.23.2012 , 02:00 PM | #67
I do think it'd be fun to see what would happen if they took all expertise out of the game.

Granted, I completely understand why it's there - it's to keep PvErs from gearing more easily in PvP. I wish I had a better solution for that.
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DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
07.23.2012 , 02:07 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Rogoo View Post
It's quite obvious.

Most people like: Skill > Gear

50 PvP is:

Gear > Skill.

Hence

10-49 PvP > 50 PvP

For most people.

/thread
A bit over simplified but yeah.

You can't take progression out of an MMO but you can balance the results of that progression better than it is. Also, progression does not have to manifest itself like this. Set bonuses, special abilities, long-cool down abilities, etc. are all ways to incent progression. Doesn't have to be WH pwns Recruit.
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DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
07.23.2012 , 02:12 PM | #69
I agree with all these points:

Quote: Originally Posted by magi_melcior View Post
Both lvl 50 an and lvl 10-49 can be fun, or they can be either boring as hell or frustrating as ****. Unfortunately lvl 50s seem to get more of the latter 2 rather than the fun one.

In low lvl gear is irrelevant due to the bolster buff, meaning it is more down to the skill of the individual player rather than what armor he's wearing. Obviously lvl 40s will still have an advantage over a lvl 10 as they will have more skills unlocked and be more familiar with their character's strengths and weaknesses. However I have seen some brilliant players doing some amazing things with low lvl characters.

At lvl 50 gear becomes the single most important thing, if the 2 teams have similar gear lvls then it will be close fought and exciting match, however if one team heavily outgears the other, they are most likely going to steam roller them (unless they're really terrible) which I find incredibly boring (if I'm on the team doing the steam rolling) or frustrating (if my side is getting steam rollered).

To make matters worse with random PUGs it doesn't matter how good your gear is, it only matters how good the overall level of the teams gear is, you could be striding out in the very best WH (perhaps with a bit of Campaign thrown in) but if the rest of the team is sporting Recruit plus a bit of BH you're going to get creamed (unless the opposition is similarly geared or just plain crap).
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
They mark me with the lightning bolt in Huttball.