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Why is lvl10-49 fun but 50 isn't?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why is lvl10-49 fun but 50 isn't?

Skolops's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 08:38 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Maybe not coordinated but there's "faaaaaaaaar" more CC flying around in level 50 Warzones as everyone has all their abilities and more or less everyone knows how Resolve works so they don't waste stuns.

This "targeting" thing very rarely happens in my experience. Premades focusing targets and coordinating CC - which happens a lot in the level 50 bracket - is far more frustrating than some lolrauder with his friend trying to hunt a specific target.

Also, there are lots of people in lowbie PvP who know what they are doing as at this point, most lowbies are alts anyway. The randomness of levels introduces a level of unpredictability which I personally enjoy.

If you're a competitive person, level 50 Warzones are better for you. If not, if you're just looking for some good clean fun, the lowbie brackets are the place to be.
I'm a competitive person who is looking to have fun in competition, and in lowbie warzones the level of fun is just not there in my experience. I know that most lowbies are alts, but it doesn't stop them from making absurd decisions nonetheless.

As someone who has a lot of alts and plays a lot of lowbie and 50 warzones, I can say the difference is huge. People in the lowbie zone really by and large don't know what they're doing, even if they are alts. Why that is, I can't say. Maybe most or many of them are people who really just level their alts and don't do much 50 PvP, so they never really learned how to play quite correctly. In fact, I'm sure this is part of it. There are definitely those in the lowbies who you can tell know what they're doing, but there are definitely a larger group who just don't. The former may be alts of experienced 50 players, and the latter alts of those players who have 5 or 6 toons, all of them below 50, and like to level them slowly doing every quest, flashpoint and heroic over a long period of time.

I don't know, really. What I do know is that it's in the lowbie warzones that I die constantly because I'm the only player on Voidstar who tries to attack near the door while my entire team is fighting waaay back by the spawn. It's only in the lowbies where I see people run up the hill on Novarre and never go far enough to actually see or shoot inside the hutt at the enemy cappers. In level 50 warzones, people try to stop enemies from coming as you're capping on Alderaan, whereas in the lowbies they all join you in capping or shoot the guy someone has just CCed so he can stop you.
El'Skan-Assassin /// Laetrie-Sniper /// Caelie-Slinger /// Fidaeria-Jugg
Armack -Chaetrie -Gaurex -Isdron -Skol'ompara /// Misericordiae -Elnar -Rujko -Sophiya
Prophecy of the Five

Siorac's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 09:00 AM | #22
I think we'll just agree to disagree; fun is a subjective concept anyway.

Ntranced's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 09:11 AM | #23
Sub 50 is fun for a lot of reasons...

- generally less CC and much less co-ordinated cc
- less pre-mades
- always random groupings (sometimes you are all 40s, sometimes you are all under 20)
- no expertise
- classes that don't scale well after 50 are still good in sub 50
- lots of rewards that come quickly (levels, skills, cash, valor)
- much more of a level playing field than 50+ (less fighting someone with 350 more expertise and 14 purple augments)
- the occasional good hearted loss instead of constant "'I'm brilliant but my team let me down so we lost" whines
- Some good laughs when for example you have to tell someone that at level 12 they really should have decided on an advanced class by now!

It is, of course, still plagued by a lot of the 50+ general issues - people leaving when they see the team, people not having a clue how to play etc.

When WAR started the long slide to oblivion it was the first PVP bracket that people still played. I expect it will be the same with SWTOR, the similarities are striking.

Sephyan's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 09:24 AM | #24
I enjoy both, but perhaps for different reasoning.

At 50, I enjoy the teamwork and competitive nature. What I don't enjoy is the gear gap in competition. Granted, there has to be something, but it's just no fun being spanked by a fully aug'd WH team when yours is still working on getting their WH. This isn't a whine from laziness, it's just a note being made concerning competitive play. It's just an unfair and unfun matchup, like a highschool football team trying to take on an NFL team. Conversely, we're not seeking to beat the snot out of the special olympics kids either.

At the 10-49, I really enjoy the lack of gear requirement. I can excel quite well on my alts regardless of being 15 levels beyond my green gear and still do well and enjoy my time. It's not that I don't mind or think that I don't have to work towards something in this style of MMO, it's just something that seems enjoyable. It might be imbalanced though without the expertise simply because if tanks and healers (yes, plural) were in a match, dps might have a hard time unless they keep up on their gear. What I despise, is the very thing I enjoy having at 50, and that's teamwork. I get incredibly frustrated at pointless CC breaks when trying to cap; annoyed at teams of individuals despite attempts to unify them; and just overall bad play (35k dmg done from a vg/pt is just abysmal when their ONLY dpsing).

My thoughts on the issue? Simply gear. <49 is fun simply because you don't have to worry about massive gear discrepancy (only level, which is an issue unto itself). I don't exactly know how you solve the issue in an MMO like this, but on one hand, expertise kills it, and the other, it's the best option.

I think ultimately, this is why I'll be finding myself taking my PVP elsewhere and enjoying it come August 28th. -- For an epic story... (Will tide you over til the game's release, for sure!)

Skolops's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 11:20 AM | #25
I really think people are way off base about the gear. There's a huge difference between someone in level appropriate purple gear and someone in greens a dozen levels below in the lowbie zones - in my experience, maybe even more than the difference between WH gear and Bm, or even perhaps recruit, to some degree in any case. In leveling my slinger, I was used to hitting 300k or so - even at lower levels - until all of a sudden, I was more consistrently hitting 150 - 200k. I realized that I had gear 10 levels to low, updated it, and went back to my 300k numbers. Yes, it is that important.

There's also all kinds of imbalance in the way this works out in keeping that gear up. Instead of simply going about acquiring your BM and then your WH pieces once, you really need to update your gear far more frequently to remain strong in lowbie warzones, and this gives a huge advantage to the individuals who have loads of money to do so. It also gives the advantage to certain classes, which tend to have more high end gear available on the market for whatever reason. For example, on 3 different servers I have consistently found that Cunning gear is in a tremendous amount more abundance than the other classes' - especially when it comes to earpiece and implants. Smugglers and Agents (who don't have enough alts to provide everything for themselves) simply have a gigantic edge in keeping up to date on gear in lowbie zones.

In the 50s bracket, there are 2 tiers of gear to worry about, which are completely free and require only an investment of time - and despite the fact that its a grind, it requires, from the experience of having leveled 11 characters now and geared 4 at level 50, far less time to actually get to a good gear level than it does to keep up to date through the lowbies. Heck, it takes about a week - and that's playing very sparingly - to get to full BM, and War Hero, even outside of rateds, is still easier to get to than keeping yourself full up to date on all of your low level stuff - that is, unless you have the money and luck to get the stuff off of the GTN every 5 levels or so.
El'Skan-Assassin /// Laetrie-Sniper /// Caelie-Slinger /// Fidaeria-Jugg
Armack -Chaetrie -Gaurex -Isdron -Skol'ompara /// Misericordiae -Elnar -Rujko -Sophiya
Prophecy of the Five

NICKjnp's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 11:28 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Skolops View Post
I would have to strongly disagree.

First of all, there is no "coordinated" stun locking outside of rateds, apart from when you're trying to cap a node and you stun the guy coming to stop you - and that is solid strategic play that adds to the fun of things by making the matches remotely organized. In lowbie PvP, its just a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing randomly killing stuff, and it's frankly stupid half the time.

Second, the other side of things is that as a result of this, what you see in lowbie PvP faaaaaar more than in the 50s is one or two guys getting a crush on you and spending the entire game focusing on you making it impossible for you to do anything, much less have fun. In the 50s brackets, people focus on objectives a lot more and (generally) try to make smart decisions about how they're spending their time. This means that you'll be the target sometimes - and in fact, if you're very good, you might be the target a lot, as it should be, but then you're very good so you can handle it.

In the lowbies, though, some level 45 marauder or two friends queing together while they are leveling might decide they want to get you on your level 26 sage, whether you're a target that makes sense or you're very good or not, and so you wind up spending the entire warzone frustrated as heck not being able to actually play. This is a particular problem for those people who are just looking for "fun" rather than more hardcore competition and aren't necessarily skilled enough to handle this kind of attention.
You just summed up my sage experience for the last couple of days. Some marauder has been specifically gunning for me and making it next to impossible to even play. He wants his comms and I'm the easiest target. It makes me just want to say screw it.

bobmcbo's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 11:30 AM | #27
50 isn't fun because it's the "pros". aka the people that are pro at ccing people to death. plus everyone takes it way too seriously.
.never forget

DroidDreamer's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 03:56 PM | #28
Why I prefer the 10-49 bracket

--Time To Kill is longer. You can take some hits and still have time to look around to pass the Huttball, duck behind some cover and get some heals. By contrast, the 50 bracket is very zergy with burst damage that leaves you dead before you can react.
--No one class or player dominates. You're not going to encounter players who, because of gear, completely dominate.
--Everyone can participate. I enjoy the bracket even at low levels. You don't need full BM to survive long enough to have an impact. And you can gear up with the class quest plus a bit of planetary questing.
--It's more casual. No one's rating is riding on it. People are more likely to play for the sake of playing, rather than exclusively to win.
--Less "pro" whiners.
--Skill matters more than gear. Gear is certainly important but it's not the whole point. Finesse with your class (knowing strengths and weakness) gets you farther. I was in greens a lot of the time and did just fine, upgraded level 40 and kept my level 40 blues up until 49 and did just fine.
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
They mark me with the lightning bolt in Huttball.

DarthOvertone's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 04:04 PM | #29
The PvP in LWZs is as close to garbage as this game gets. They are certainly more fun than PvE, but I don't consider them anywhere near as fun as 50 WZs.

I think some peeps have difficulty separating the gear grind from the 50s bracket, and that gets them down. Since I primarily PvP for fun, the extra gear I get from PvPing is sort of a secondary reward. So 50s PvP doesn't feel at all like a grind to me.
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Kurfer's Avatar

07.20.2012 , 04:08 PM | #30
I can't stand pre 50 pvp and pvp is all I do on my level 50 chars...

Winning doesn't mean as much pre-50, it's just a bunch of fotm re-rollers pretending they don't suck.