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New Operations Urgently Needed


Fossman's Avatar


Fossman
07.30.2012 , 12:47 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Question for all MMO veterans (I.E more than just one mmo).

Is the speed at which they release new content: World Events, Flashpoints and Operations
normal?

Or is this slower than most?

For example:

Did/do EQ and EQ2 release Dungeons and Raids more often than SWTOR?
Its much slower than Rift. They put out major content updates every month or 2 at least. Plus they have events constantly. I mean the next patch coming out for rift is going to more than double the size of their map. In addition to new raids and instances. Im not asking that much from the swtor devs. But for the love of god at least give us a freakin time frame on upcoming updates

But its not just the speed its the quality and longevity of the content that matters to me. The last major update just didnt have enough to justify such a long wait for the next one.

pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
07.30.2012 , 12:55 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Question for all MMO veterans (I.E more than just one mmo).

Is the speed at which they release new content: World Events, Flashpoints and Operations
normal?

Or is this slower than most?

For example:

Did/do EQ and EQ2 release Dungeons and Raids more often than SWTOR?
Everquest had expansions that started out once every year, but then turned into about one every 6 months. Each expansion brought a ton of new zones, quest areas, dungeons, end game pve bosses, etc. EQ Release Timeline

I started with original release and played it solely until mid 2005.

WoW was a little different. They would release about a new expansion once a year, but in between would have mini content patches adding dungeons, new zones, end game content etc. This was pretty regular for awhile.
WoW Release Timeline

The main thing is that both HIGHLY successful MMO's released content that was engaging for awhile. Not 4 bosses and not release stuff for months. Most of WoW was 8+ bosses in an endgame, and then they would add filler dungeons, raids etc before the next xpac release.
Cali Killed Nox
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Utania's Avatar


Utania
07.30.2012 , 04:56 AM | #73
Regardless of how frequently they release content compared to MMOs, there isn't enough variation in the end game to keep people.

I wouldn't say that I've blown through content and we are still working on HM EC, though through attrition as our gear people got bored and left, leaving us with a re-gearing cycle

I'd missed out on doing flashpoints whilst leveling so 1.3 meant that I was able to go back and experience them, but I've done maybe 5 a week and am now looking at optimising gear rather than upgrading and they are getting a little boring.

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
07.30.2012 , 06:19 AM | #74
As much as we need content now, the lack of communication is the killer.

Nightmare EC should have been in 1.3. I frankly hope it will be out before 1.4 but am not expecting it.

Despite all of this if Bioware told us today that TFB will be released in 1.4 in the next 2 months and will include all 3 difficult modes (ideally with 8+ bosses)...you'd go a long way to making a lot of raiding guilds happy.
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
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Sir-Phobos's Avatar


Sir-Phobos
07.30.2012 , 07:14 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Question for all MMO veterans (I.E more than just one mmo).

Is the speed at which they release new content: World Events, Flashpoints and Operations
normal?

Or is this slower than most?

For example:

Did/do EQ and EQ2 release Dungeons and Raids more often than SWTOR?
In Everquest 1, content updates in between expansions were rare, but the game has something like 19 expansion packs now. However, the difficulty of the raids, leveling speed, etc, meant that people running out of stuff to do was not the norm. Only the hardcore raiders would actually beat all the raids in an expansion before the next expansion came out.

In fact, if memory serves me, the Avatar of War was not beaten for the first time without using an exploit until the night before the next expansion came out. The Gates of Discord expansion was not beaten by anybody before the Omens of War expansion came out.

lexiekaboom's Avatar


lexiekaboom
07.30.2012 , 08:36 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Question for all MMO veterans (I.E more than just one mmo).

Is the speed at which they release new content: World Events, Flashpoints and Operations
normal?

Or is this slower than most?

For example:

Did/do EQ and EQ2 release Dungeons and Raids more often than SWTOR?
You have define generations of MMOs

EQ, AOC, AC ... the first gen MMOs simply did not update content ever. They used a different model; expansions. The expansions where generally on a yearly basis, and included as much (in most cases more) content then the base game. So if this was EQ1 would be looking at the ruins of Kunark trailers, with a release date of 5 months from now (ROK came out 1 year after EQ1 almost to the day). It would include (in SW:TOR terms) 20 or so new raid bosses, 10-15 new worlds (Kunark had MUCH more content then vanilla EQ1), a level cap increase to 60, and new types of epic quests. We would also be looking at spending $50 on buying that content.

WOW, EQ2(sub based), AO, EVE ... the second gen MMOs worked in the expansions model as well, but we less frequent in the expansions. They did content updates (EQ did "adventure packs", for example) which were either paid DLC or free to all. The expansions themselves were huge though, with much, much more content then the original game.

Current gen like AOC, TSW, STO, EQ2(FTP), D&DO, Rifts, ect, all work on the episodic content system, pumping out new zones, raids, and classes every few months or less. Most have monthly releases which amount to about 6 to 10 hours of new content, while other are a little behind that mark but make it up in size of the release.

Where is SW:TOR in this? Without question the worst post launch support of any game every, UNLESS they are going with the 2nd gen model and we see a "more then double the game content" release late next year. This is unlikely though as the reason this model stopped being used is people didn't give MMOs that much time any more.

Utania's Avatar


Utania
07.30.2012 , 09:14 AM | #77
EQ was also a harder level grind with hell levels and gear was very much at the mercy of random number generator where you could be camping for multiple gaming sessions killing trash and hoping to spawn a named "boss" mob which then might drop what you were looking for. There was also a big step up in difficulty where you needed to farm the gear in order to take on harder content.

EQ content was longer lived cause it was evil to progress, not sure this would be successful now.

pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
07.30.2012 , 09:36 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Utania View Post
EQ was also a harder level grind with hell levels and gear was very much at the mercy of random number generator where you could be camping for multiple gaming sessions killing trash and hoping to spawn a named "boss" mob which then might drop what you were looking for. There was also a big step up in difficulty where you needed to farm the gear in order to take on harder content.

EQ content was longer lived cause it was evil to progress, not sure this would be successful now.
It wouldn't be successful now. But I actually miss that and reminisce sometimes of the "good ol' days" of camping Raster, Jboots in OOT, Pre-nerf Circlet of Shadows, etc etc etc.

The main thing I miss about EQ was the CONTENT WAS HARD. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It was very difficult and things would be worked on consistently for months at a time to try and down it before the next expansion. There was always something to do, and leveling took weeks, not a mere 3-4 days like now.
Cali Killed Nox
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Thoffs's Avatar


Thoffs
07.30.2012 , 12:01 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by pure_laced View Post
It wouldn't be successful now. But I actually miss that and reminisce sometimes of the "good ol' days" of camping Raster, Jboots in OOT, Pre-nerf Circlet of Shadows, etc etc etc.

The main thing I miss about EQ was the CONTENT WAS HARD. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It was very difficult and things would be worked on consistently for months at a time to try and down it before the next expansion. There was always something to do, and leveling took weeks, not a mere 3-4 days like now.
I also sorta miss the EQ days - you definitely always had something to do since everything took so long. But that was then, this is now. I agree that slow leveling would not be successful now. In May/June 2010 (?), Vanguard had a mini-expansion with new levels 50 to 55, and initially leveling over these five levels was painfully, painfully slow as a return to the good ol days of EQ. Vanguard was already down to four servers at the time, and this caused another player exodus just when things seem to be on the upswing (you really had to grind for XP from 50 to 55, and had a very limited set of places to do so). They eventually sped up leveling again about a month after the initial release of the 55 cap, but it was too late, folks just did not want to pay that pain and many left. In the late Fall after the mini-expansion, they had to consolidate servers again.

I think that in today's MMO market it is not too hard to please players as long as you have the capability to bring out new content on a regular basis (2-3 months) that addresses the various segments of your player base (high-end raiders, casual raiders, and non-raiders). So far, SWTOR has not been able to do that. Somehow, when the engine for a modern MMO is designed, it needs to be designed with the capability of bringing out new content quickly. If that can't be done, then the MMO will struggle, as SWTOR currently is struggling. I keep hoping that things will change in terms of the frequency of SWTOR content releases as they get into the swing of it, but it does not seem to be happening (the opposite seems to be happening).

Still hoping for news of 1.4 Operations content/release schedule at any time......ucandoit Bioware!!!

lexiekaboom's Avatar


lexiekaboom
07.30.2012 , 12:13 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Thoffs View Post
I also sorta miss the EQ days - you definitely always had something to do since everything took so long. But that was then, this is now. I agree that slow leveling would not be successful now. In May/June 2010 (?), Vanguard had a mini-expansion with new levels 50 to 55, and initially leveling over these five levels was painfully, painfully slow as a return to the good ol days of EQ. Vanguard was already down to four servers at the time, and this caused another player exodus just when things seem to be on the upswing (you really had to grind for XP from 50 to 55, and had a very limited set of places to do so). They eventually sped up leveling again about a month after the initial release of the 55 cap, but it was too late, folks just did not want to pay that pain and many left. In the late Fall after the mini-expansion, they had to consolidate servers again.

I think that in today's MMO market it is not too hard to please players as long as you have the capability to bring out new content on a regular basis (2-3 months) that addresses the various segments of your player base (high-end raiders, casual raiders, and non-raiders). So far, SWTOR has not been able to do that. Somehow, when the engine for a modern MMO is designed, it needs to be designed with the capability of bringing out new content quickly. If that can't be done, then the MMO will struggle, as SWTOR currently is struggling. I keep hoping that things will change in terms of the frequency of SWTOR content releases as they get into the swing of it, but it does not seem to be happening (the opposite seems to be happening).

Still hoping for news of 1.4 Operations content/release schedule at any time......ucandoit Bioware!!!
I agree and disagree. Vanguards problem wasn't slow leveling, it was boring leveling and the fact that there wasn't content to support it. Leveling can be slow as long as the ride is a good time. Look at COD for example; a LOT of people level grind that game, with a single level taking about 2 weeks to get (I'm talking an elite level, obviously). No one says "OMG leveling is too slow" because it's just part of the ride.

FF12, LOTRO, PSO, and PSO2 all do this as well; PAINFULLY slow leveling by even the EQ standard, but with enough balance in additive game play and prevalent content to sink there teeth into enough people. Add to that any game made outside NA and the EQ "style" of leveling is still very much part of the MMO world today and is successful in a lot of MMOs.

EQ wouldn't be successful today because it was punishing and had no quality of life additions until very late. People will still grind hour open hours to get a level, but they sure as hell will not spend 2 hours to go from one zone to another.

How's the fit with SW:TOR? Back to content. SW:TOR could raise the level cap to 55 (they will be soon) but right now that would do nothing to keep people in the game, even if it was a grind. Leveling in SW:TOR was fun because of story, not fun because of game play, loot hunt, or anything else. Had it took longer to get from 1 to 50 ... what would people have done? You do your quests, you do the side quests, then ... what? How do you make up the "grind xp"?

There is, overall, very little to do in SW:TOR from day one. The strength of the story makes that ok from 1 to 50, but that wouldn't be the case if you needed to work to level.