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[Guide] PVE Scoundrel Healing


Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
06.05.2013 , 02:57 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by inocelda View Post
To give you a better perspective of the differences between Crit Rating and Power...

Crit Analysis:
Crit Rating | HPS
443--------------7,378.77
364--------------7,386.21
285--------------7,389.34
206--------------7,387.90
127--------------7,381.58

The above analysis shows you that 285 will give you the most hps. This is of course based on the fact that you will have the minimum required alacrity (79*6=474) to allow you to use 12 casts in your rotation versus only 11 casts for being below 450 alacrity. If you have 474 alacrity then the maximum surge you can have is 316. So, with 316 surge, 285 is the sweet spot for crit to maximize your hps. However, seeing as it really doesn't change your hps THAT much, you could have a higher crit rating (perhaps you want to gain more energy from your Diagnostic Scan) and it wouldn't hurt your hps much.

If anything though, you should NOT have 0 crit rating...This is the worst of both worlds, since you neither gain more energy from your Diagnostic Scans nor do you have a higher hps. The only thing that 0 crit rating does is make you have a really big heal once in a great moon...I guess if getting a stupid record in one of those pvp threads for the single biggest heal for your class is your goal then by all means, go ahead.
Gotta love some proper reasoned and math-backed conclusions rather than just 'get 350 crit because, I dunno, it's a nice round number. Thank you for putting in the work.

The OP is also saying to use UW 4 piece. Why? The 5 plus in Energy seems rather pointless considering the class has little issue with Energy management. Using 63 2pc and 72/75 2pc for cheaper and more potent Kolto Cloud. Taking 63 4pc seems interesting considering Kolto Pack is actually useful now but the loss of Cunning may be too heavy.

PvP sets are useless and require too much of Cunning loss.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

thegreebler's Avatar


thegreebler
06.05.2013 , 06:05 PM | #102
Wish to greeble as a scoundrel do you? Hmm? Simply going to war does not make one a War-Lord. The Grobble is my ally, and a powerful ally it is!

Much to learn we all have, much to learn.

Thus I declare The Grobble only to be satisfied when the rotation of Inifinite Greebling to be mastered.

Executive Greebling # 11. Your quickbars shall be in the shape of your nostromo keys so that your mental reflexes will not be grasping for that "skill over there." You will immediately recognize what keys need to be hit. This is to Visually put your mind into the right state.

Executive Greebling # 12. You will put all your activation timed things on the 1-12 quickbar and your INSTANTS on another quickbar (Shift 1-12).

Executive Greebling # 13; You will place your instants and activated skills in spots where you feel would be most greebly to achieve the "cast with 1 key, instant with Shift 1 key" combination.

EXAMPLE ; 1 key actives UW Medicine, Shift 1 activates E-Medpack. This has been done fast enough to bypass 33% of the usual global, AND has made it so you activate two skills without have to even change keys!!! This adds speed to your rotation!!!

Executive Greebling #14; You will recognize that our skills rotation DEMANDS a different approach than it did before 2.0. Specifically, your SPIKE heals are way more important now. While our typical UW medicine and E-Medpack would get through just about anything before.... such is not the case now.

You must recognize this and find a greebly rotation of skills. To you I shall impart some general rules;

A, Kolto Pack is essential now, in terms of raw heal output.

B. Diagnostic Scan with a high alacrity stacked with a crit adrenal = heals and power for The Grobble.

C, E-Medpack heals more than it did - or perhaps my stats back in the day were crapo. I don't know which.


I confess at this point I have changed my board layout and quickbars to allow myself ease of transition. Scoundrel is not 'the good healer but I wish it was a sorc" heals anymore. And if people are thinking of it that way now, its because they are running scoundrels that don't know yet.

Even when things are going bad, we can do amazing things.

Good greeblngs, May The Grobble be with you!!

GREEBLE GROBBLE!@!!
For everything we do, we are greebling.
For everything that is, that is the grobble.
Everything not at peace, is ungreebly.
When there is no greebling, that is the true grobble.

Elbmuh's Avatar


Elbmuh
06.06.2013 , 08:51 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Florrana View Post
Hey! Love the guide, Im thinking about even making my main a Sawbones atm, this guide was just what I was looking for. I was curious if it wouldnt be too much trouble if either the OP could maybe post an "askmrrobot" guide to the gearing and augment choices. It would be awesome, that way we could see BiS and the correct way to go atm. Pre 2.2 of course. thanks
There are so many different ways to mod gear that putting up a "guide" on Ask Mr. Robot would lead to a lot of headaches for some people trying to get the "exact" mods I put up there. I had some examples before, but took them down. Instead, just try to mess around with your mods to reach the suggested numbers in the attributes section.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSanta View Post
I know this is a PvE guide but I wondered if you could do some PvP calculations as well. For example the alacrity, instead of getting 79 on a piece of equipment you'll only get 64. Now you say that the key rating is 450 alacrity, however, with only 64 on an enhancement you'll need 7 of them to reach 448 or 8 to get above 450 which leaves you with only 3 or 2 enhancements for surge.

Now if it's not feasible to aim for 450 alacrity should I aim for the same ratio of enhancements? 6 alacrity and 4 surge? Or, since I heard somewhere that alacrity is only really good if you get a lot of it, sack alacrity much more and get more surge?

Same goes for crit rating, how many mods/enhancements with crit should I aim for to get t he most return? The high crit enhancements give 41 rating and the high crit mods give 46 if that's any help.
I updated the attribute section and hopefully it's able to answer your question better. Basically, alacrity depends on style (whether you revolve around Slow-Release Medpac or not). I'd say, in general, if you aren't following a similar rotation that revolves around Slow-Release Medpac then you're using scoundrel incorrectly. In that case though, the alacrity speeds up Kolto Pack and gives you more casts in between refreshing Slow-Release Medpac. Just a thought. I don't do PVP though, so the play style in PVP might be radically different. If emergency healing with big crits is important in PVP, then more crit and surge would be good, but I don't see any reason that PVP healing should differ greatly from PVE healing.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
The OP is also saying to use UW 4 piece. Why? The 5 plus in Energy seems rather pointless considering the class has little issue with Energy management. Using 63 2pc and 72/75 2pc for cheaper and more potent Kolto Cloud. Taking 63 4pc seems interesting considering Kolto Pack is actually useful now but the loss of Cunning may be too heavy.
Believe it or not, the extra 5 energy gives me enough wiggle room where I noticed I was using Diagnostic Scan less to recover energy after I received the 4-piece bonus. I think this is substantial because I'm able to pull off a Kolto Pack now where I would normally throw another Diagnostic Scan.

Elbmuh's Avatar


Elbmuh
06.06.2013 , 08:52 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by thegreebler View Post
Wish to greeble as a scoundrel do you? Hmm? Simply going to war does not make one a War-Lord. The Grobble is my ally, and a powerful ally it is!

Much to learn we all have, much to learn.

Thus I declare The Grobble only to be satisfied when the rotation of Inifinite Greebling to be mastered.

Executive Greebling # 11. Your quickbars shall be in the shape of your nostromo keys so that your mental reflexes will not be grasping for that "skill over there." You will immediately recognize what keys need to be hit. This is to Visually put your mind into the right state.

Executive Greebling # 12. You will put all your activation timed things on the 1-12 quickbar and your INSTANTS on another quickbar (Shift 1-12).

Executive Greebling # 13; You will place your instants and activated skills in spots where you feel would be most greebly to achieve the "cast with 1 key, instant with Shift 1 key" combination.

EXAMPLE ; 1 key actives UW Medicine, Shift 1 activates E-Medpack. This has been done fast enough to bypass 33% of the usual global, AND has made it so you activate two skills without have to even change keys!!! This adds speed to your rotation!!!

Executive Greebling #14; You will recognize that our skills rotation DEMANDS a different approach than it did before 2.0. Specifically, your SPIKE heals are way more important now. While our typical UW medicine and E-Medpack would get through just about anything before.... such is not the case now.

You must recognize this and find a greebly rotation of skills. To you I shall impart some general rules;

A, Kolto Pack is essential now, in terms of raw heal output.

B. Diagnostic Scan with a high alacrity stacked with a crit adrenal = heals and power for The Grobble.

C, E-Medpack heals more than it did - or perhaps my stats back in the day were crapo. I don't know which.


I confess at this point I have changed my board layout and quickbars to allow myself ease of transition. Scoundrel is not 'the good healer but I wish it was a sorc" heals anymore. And if people are thinking of it that way now, its because they are running scoundrels that don't know yet.

Even when things are going bad, we can do amazing things.

Good greeblngs, May The Grobble be with you!!

GREEBLE GROBBLE!@!!
Awesome. Agreed on all points.

Voxx_Voltaare's Avatar


Voxx_Voltaare
06.07.2013 , 02:16 AM | #105
Just some anecdotal stuff to pass the time...

I know how a lot of healers will sort of complain about lousy tanks and dps in PUG FPs, etc. Makes our job a lot more difficult when they don't know how to play their roles effectively. I totally get that. But part of what makes it for me as a healer, are all the times that I have queued up for a 55 FP only to find out I've joined up halfway through, or at the last boss because the previous healer bailed.

Some times it's for a legitimate reason and the group was doing fine, but more often than not it quickly becomes apparent why I am suddenly the replacement healer. That's when I roll up my sleeves and vow that no-one shall die on my watch. Sure, there are times when there is only so much a mortal Mirialan can do in the face of extreme ineptitude. But that's the challenge. And when you are triumphant, you usually get a whole lot of gratitude thrown your way.
The Voltaare Legacy /// Harbinger
Ætheriä - SentinelDöctör-Stränge - Scoundrel

LyfeJ's Avatar


LyfeJ
06.18.2013 , 06:08 AM | #106
One correction and one addation:

Quote: Originally Posted by Elbmuh View Post
Skill tree

I believe this is this optimal skill tree to use. Your last 2 points can either go in Scramble in the Sawbones tree or Mortal Wound in the Dirty Fighting tree depending on whether you’ll need an extra speed boost or you’re contributing to some damage with Vital Shot.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701MffrzGoRzfsZ0cZG.3
Scramble no longer provides a speed boost. Talent was changed with 2.0.


Quote: Originally Posted by Elbmuh View Post
Healing tips

Start in stealth

Starting in stealth will grants you 2 upper hand immediately after you break out of it thanks to a talent in the skill tree. It’s no longer necessary to build up upper hand before battle.
I swaped 'Smuggeld Med Delivery' with 'Med Screen'. There is enough time to start the fight with two 'Upper Hands'. As long as you keep your "Disappearing Act' cooldown free for a second resurrection, you can only use this talent once on each (boss)encounter. 'Med Screen' provides a little bit more mitigation in form of an extra heal. Started to love this talent, when we faced the Dread Guard Commanders Nightmare. This litte heal saved me more than once just to die a few moments/minutes later *g*.

They also changed 'Browbeater' (second tree, first line). I've no chance to parse, if 'Browbeater' or 'Mortal Wound' does more damage. Dummies always reset. Still i'm curious, if 12% more damage and 2% more tech accuracy would beat the 25% chance of an extra tick. Does someone know, if there is a way to keep Dummies away from reseting, when they only take damage from dots?
Ris Jaan
Med Operative | Athanato Orden
"Life is short, so Kolto it up!"

inocelda's Avatar


inocelda
06.19.2013 , 09:05 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by LyfeJ View Post

I swaped 'Smuggeld Med Delivery' with 'Med Screen'. There is enough time to start the fight with two 'Upper Hands'. As long as you keep your "Disappearing Act' cooldown free for a second resurrection, you can only use this talent once on each (boss)encounter. 'Med Screen' provides a little bit more mitigation in form of an extra heal. Started to love this talent, when we faced the Dread Guard Commanders Nightmare. This litte heal saved me more than once just to die a few moments/minutes later *g*.
First off, you don't "swap" Smuggled Med Delivery for Med Screen or vice-versa. You should have both of those abilities to make the 36 points in Sawbones. If you think that 4% damage reduction for your healer, who barely takes any damage as it is, will be better than Smuggled Med Delivery, you are mistaken.

Obviously, you are going to start the fight with THREE Upper Hand stacks, not two.

Disappearing Act should be used as part of your rotation so you can get more use of Emergency Medpac or Kolto Pack casts. Disappearing Act is NOT going to be used for a stealth revive because first, you should have HoTs on raid member for the entire fight so it will take at LEAST 18 seconds after the person dies before you are able to revive them (perhaps you don't know that when a HoT ticks on someone else, it will put you back into combat, even in stealth) and second, 18s is just something that you cannot afford to do in the Dread Guard Nightmare fight because A, you are stressing the other healer while you are not healing to revive and B, not many teams can afford to beat the Kelsara enrage with a dead dps for 21s.

Quote: Originally Posted by LyfeJ View Post
They also changed 'Browbeater' (second tree, first line). I've no chance to parse, if 'Browbeater' or 'Mortal Wound' does more damage. Dummies always reset. Still i'm curious, if 12% more damage and 2% more tech accuracy would beat the 25% chance of an extra tick. Does someone know, if there is a way to keep Dummies away from reseting, when they only take damage from dots?
As for Browbeater versus Mortal Wound , that is a pretty easy choice as well..choose Mortal Wound. If you are going to be putting points into boosting your Vital Shot, it should be Open Wound first and then Mortal Wound, not Browbeater. Here is why...

--- Open Wound gives you an extra tick of damage. If you didn't know, there are normally 5 ticks of damage for Vital Shot so Open Wound makes it 6 ticks. Think of that 1 tick as +20% total damage.
--- Mortal Wound gives the 12.5% chance to tick twice. 12.5%*5 ticks= 62.5% combined with Open Wound, 12.5%*6 ticks = 75%. That is a 75% chance. So going by the same principle above, 75% of the 20 above is +15% total damage.
--- Browbeater...the 1% accuracy is nothing. An extra 6% total damage by Vital Shot is +6% total damage...compared to 20% from Open Wound or 15% per point in Mortal Wound.

I don't know how you are managing in DG NiM but perhaps you should trust what this guide says. I have personally healed with Bayani and he knows his stuff. Honestly, he is by far the best PvE scoundrel healer I've come across on the Jedi Covenant server. My guild has been doing DG 8NiM and I've been averaging 5600 hps with upwards of 6k hps. Normally I can hit higher on most fights but given the severity and spikeyness of the heals in that fight, they drop some.
Here is a link for the combat logs I uploaded - Inovisible heals. There are quite a few pulls in there (link to each fight on left side if you've never used torparse before) since we wiped a lot but it gives you an idea of the potential for Scoundrels.
Inovisible of Jedi Covenant (Retired)
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inocelda's Avatar


inocelda
06.19.2013 , 09:13 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Voxx_Voltaare View Post
Just some anecdotal stuff to pass the time...

I know how a lot of healers will sort of complain about lousy tanks and dps in PUG FPs, etc. Makes our job a lot more difficult when they don't know how to play their roles effectively. I totally get that. But part of what makes it for me as a healer, are all the times that I have queued up for a 55 FP only to find out I've joined up halfway through, or at the last boss because the previous healer bailed.

Some times it's for a legitimate reason and the group was doing fine, but more often than not it quickly becomes apparent why I am suddenly the replacement healer. That's when I roll up my sleeves and vow that no-one shall die on my watch. Sure, there are times when there is only so much a mortal Mirialan can do in the face of extreme ineptitude. But that's the challenge. And when you are triumphant, you usually get a whole lot of gratitude thrown your way.
I tilt my hat to you sir. I also enjoy the challenge of a good FP heal with random pugs Though recently, I usually don't queue for the 55 FPs unless I have a dps friend who can queue as a "tank." Since you don't really need a tank for any of the FPs, I think it goes a lot smoother with 3 dps and 1 healer and it is certainly more challenging than over-healing a group with a tank.

One of my more recent entertaining adventures involved 2 dps looking for a group. One was well geared and the other was low and needed the FP gear. I told them I would heal for them if they found another dps. We went on to run all 4 of the 55 FPs back to back because it went so fast with the extra dps haha lots of fun!
Inovisible of Jedi Covenant (Retired)
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LyfeJ's Avatar


LyfeJ
06.20.2013 , 05:57 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by inocelda View Post
First off, you don't "swap" Smuggled Med Delivery for Med Screen or vice-versa. You should have both of those abilities to make the 36 points in Sawbones. If you think that 4% damage reduction for your healer, who barely takes any damage as it is, will be better than Smuggled Med Delivery, you are mistaken.
This is a great idea. I played almost only pvp until Bioware broke it with all those Bolster-bugs. For me it was always a 'must have'. I primarily try to find out things myself, until i look out for suggestions from other players. Elbmuh invested two skillpoints in 'Scar Tissue', too (as you can see in my first post). I think, this should be corrected then.

Quote: Originally Posted by inocelda View Post
... (perhaps you don't know that when a HoT ticks on someone else, it will put you back into combat, even in stealth)
No, i never noticed that. Thank you for the information.

Quote: Originally Posted by inocelda View Post
As for Browbeater versus Mortal Wound , that is a pretty easy choice as well..choose Mortal Wound. If you are going to be putting points into boosting your Vital Shot, it should be Open Wound first and then Mortal Wound, not Browbeater. Here is why...

--- Open Wound gives you an extra tick of damage. If you didn't know, there are normally 5 ticks of damage for Vital Shot so Open Wound makes it 6 ticks. Think of that 1 tick as +20% total damage.
--- Mortal Wound gives the 12.5% chance to tick twice. 12.5%*5 ticks= 62.5% combined with Open Wound, 12.5%*6 ticks = 75%. That is a 75% chance. So going by the same principle above, 75% of the 20 above is +15% total damage.
--- Browbeater...the 1% accuracy is nothing. An extra 6% total damage by Vital Shot is +6% total damage...compared to 20% from Open Wound or 15% per point in Mortal Wound.
Thanks for the math. I was just suprised, when i realised, that Encounters seem to resist my attacks quite more than i expected. 9% less accuarcy than required does not sound much.

Quote: Originally Posted by inocelda View Post
I don't know how you are managing in DG NiM but perhaps you should trust what this guide says. I have personally healed with Bayani and he knows his stuff. Honestly, he is by far the best PvE scoundrel healer I've come across on the Jedi Covenant server. My guild has been doing DG 8NiM and I've been averaging 5600 hps with upwards of 6k hps. Normally I can hit higher on most fights but given the severity and spikeyness of the heals in that fight, they drop some.
Here is a link for the combat logs I uploaded - Inovisible heals. There are quite a few pulls in there (link to each fight on left side if you've never used torparse before) since we wiped a lot but it gives you an idea of the potential for Scoundrels.
Right now, we are unable to beat Kelsara's enragetimer. That's the reason, why i was looking for ways to make damage myself and keep my group alive. I'm going to use Torparse tonight against DG NiM and see, how i do compared to you. I'm still learning the PvE-ways.
Ris Jaan
Med Operative | Athanato Orden
"Life is short, so Kolto it up!"

Voxx_Voltaare's Avatar


Voxx_Voltaare
06.20.2013 , 07:13 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by inocelda View Post
I tilt my hat to you sir.
Likewise. Some great information in your post. I had previously posted asking about using DA to rez in combat and wasn't provided the info that HoTs on players triggered combat. It's essentially futile to try it in a HM+ Op.

I'm curious, did you take Open Wounds/Mortal Wounds in your spec? I opted to take Dirty Escape for the 30s Dirty Kick. What are your thoughts on that route?
The Voltaare Legacy /// Harbinger
Ætheriä - SentinelDöctör-Stränge - Scoundrel