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Infighter's Avatar


Infighter
07.16.2012 , 02:31 PM | #21
1) Assault is OP, Tactics is not seen around much to be perceived as anything and Shield is... well, a tank.

2) In my opinion? Assault is overpowered. Having a huge burst spec with great mobility (because, being able to use all of your huge burst skills at 30 yards range and having them all be instant is GREAT mobility) a semi-constant 50% slow and average-good survivability makes it quite overpowered. But at the same time, assault's ranged burst is all it has got so nerfing it without any kind of compensation will probably result in making the spec useless.

Reducing the range of some of the 30-y skills to 10-y can be a start (giving a passive to commandos in the same way Snipers and Sage have one), but will completely make Assault range fodder. A Sniper will eat an assault Vanguard completely if all its skills are 10-y range. Changing the talent Degauss to make the vanguard immune to roots and slowing effects for the duration / for 6 seconds could fix that a bit. There is the option of making Hold the Line baseline, but I'd rather Tactics keep some of its utility. The talent Focused Impact needs to be reduced to 30% (with Havoc Training giving Tactics the other 30% back) to reduce HIB's damage. Assault Plastique needs its damage reduced by 20% (plus or less) BUT it needs some sort of compensation to not make it even worse than it already is for PvE. Maybe making it refund 1 ammo when it explodes? This could help the ammo-starvation an Assault gets when RNG Gods are against you and IA does not want to proc. Also changing Intimidation and Steely Resolve's places in the Talent Trees might make Assault Plastique more tempting.

/feeback!? Feel free to comment on whatever I have said.

Suryi's Avatar


Suryi
07.16.2012 , 02:35 PM | #22
1) Currently I feel that most people believe Vanguard = Assault, most notably in PvP where the general consensus is we're OP. While there are a few underdogs who have taken the extra time and effort to master Tactics, there's not enough to show the world that Assault isn't in fact all that Vanguards can do. As tanks, I think we're viewed as walking meatshields that take ages to kill but are mildly annoying (at least compared to Guardians who can be, in my opinion, much much more annoying at peeling then VGs)

2) As an Assault PvE DPS I absolutely love this class, it is nowhere near as easy as people want to believe, it has a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling, it provides ample room for improvement given the will from the player and the rotation is very dynamic based on Ionic Accelerator Procs and our luck with it. Based on observations during raids it feels like we bring the 2nd highest single target dps, 1st being Sents. This only occurs when the boss fight doesn't work in our way, i.e.: there's nothing preventing the sent from just staying on the boss and nuking. I'm more concerned by how far us and sentinels are ahead of the pack, considering we're sort-of-melee and melee, there's no fight that massively favors ranged to make up for it. 1 gripe I have with Assault is how with extreme bad luck we can end up from hero to zero because soooo much depends on that 1 damned proc it's not even funny. I'd be okay with slightly lower damage as long as there was something done about RNG. Not saying remove RNG entirely, just either increase the chance or increase it slightly per use of abilities once IA proc is down, so there's no 20 secs of not one damned proc lol press hammershot.

PvE Tank is fun as well, with a big set of abilities each with their own uses, it confers the feeling of a mobile fortress (especially with high shield chance + the cool shielding animation).

In Assault PvP DPS we've got the strongest burst but bad survivability. It kind of feels like we do deal more damage then we should.
Nhilas - Combat Medic Commando

Bioware, what can we expect as far as PvP for the future of SWTOR?
No

Oshimo's Avatar


Oshimo
07.16.2012 , 02:53 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by CommunitySupport View Post
Hi everyone,
1. How do you think your Vanguard spec is perceived by other classes?
2. How do you perceive your own spec?
Thank you!
Vangaurd Shield (Tank)
1. Best most versatile tank in the game. Unique and ORIGINAL ranged/heavy MT design vs other MMOs, with all melee tanks. 'unkillable' hits 'too' hard for a tank.
2. Unique class, special, well designed, highly versatile. Can tank anything, sturdy meat shield, decent mitigation. The only tank design in the game that can maintain aggro on 5 targets with no one in the group taking damage.
Diverbuoy
<sweeps hand> "Feel the force of these words, surround you, bind you, consume you they will, forever they will dominate your destiny."

AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
07.16.2012 , 02:56 PM | #24
I seem to have either accidentally posted in the wrong thread earlier. This will be less in depth than that post, which is unfortunate but perhaps for the best.

I'm Shield Specialist. Have been since day one. Vanguard remains my main class for all activities even though I have an assortment of alts. I'll answer the posed questions first and then offer some minor feedback.

1. How do you think your Vanguard spec is perceived by other classes?

I think that, comparatively, we are considered fairly useful. In PvE, there's no particular issues that we have when sized up against other tank classes except some poor cooldowns but I think we're general thought of as having lots of utility and control capability.

In PvP, it is mixed. The changes post 1.3 have not necessarily made Shield Spec Vanguards any less desirable as teammates but, as with nearly all tanking classes, I think we're not seen as particularly threatening. We are thought as gadflies. Non threats outside of our ability to mitigate.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

In general, I think Vanguards are in a moderately good place. Skilled players can do well in both PvE and PvP endgame and we have a lot of tools on our table. I believe we have taken a blow in PvP and a slightly lesser one in PvE.

The new ability to retain mob aggro is good and the additional mechanics on Explosive Surge and HiB are very much appreciated. However, I believe that their usages are limited and that the gains we received in threat generation and maintainability did not necessitate the complete removal of bonus damage on Stockstrike. We were not particularly powerful pre 1.2 anyway and while this is clearly a move to stop hybrid builds like Iron Fist, I emphatically believe that this is a mistake.

But beyond that issue, I think that the change has affected PvP viability. Not immensely but notably. Regardless of the supposed Rock, Paper, Scissors dynamic that is supposed to occur with weapon damage, Force/Tech attacks, and Shield, PvP is still a realm in which one of our main mitigators (Shield procs) isn't really up to snuff. Now, some of that is offset by our usage of Heavy Armor and some mitigation talents but the new mechanics we have now are still far better in a PvE environment than PvP. Mostly, I suspect because they were meant pretty exclusively as solutions to threat drops.

But they're very limited tools. Supercharged Ion Cell does not earn its name. A minor increase to duration or area of effect range could help with this. Likewise, the free E. Surges on Storm do not have as much use in PVP, even taking into account the debuff from Static Field. If a reduction of single target burst is necessitated for this build, that's fine. It makes sense. But, I think it also makes sense for some of the new mechanics to balance out the spec through PvE and PvP. The recent change didn't quite do that, in my estimation.

Regardless, I enjoy the class and find it very playable. With some minor tweaks, it would be pretty much ideal. Which is saying something because I think there's a few ACs out there that need a lot of work. Vanguard's? I think, across the board, it just require a few tiny things.
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."

Burtlebe's Avatar


Burtlebe
07.16.2012 , 02:57 PM | #25
lvl 50 Vanguard Tank

1) considered by others to be the best

2) My favorite tank, I feel our interrupt needs to be longer than 4m. Tanks in general seem to still take way to much damage even when specced pretty high if your fighting multiple mobs. Agro management is much improved.
Burtimus'prime Vanguard Tank
Guild Leader Army of the Republic / The Army of Darkness / The Unmentionables
The Shadowlands Server

Laforet's Avatar


Laforet
07.16.2012 , 03:05 PM | #26
Assault Vanguard


1. How do you think your Vanguard spec is perceived by other classes?

As an iminent danger. Out of control burst and taunts sometimes makes assault vanguards priority targets along with healers.


2. How do you perceive your own spec?[

When im on my Vanguard i feel overpowered. I have excellent burst, good sustained and every tool i need to stay alive and get the job done (damage reduction CD, superior kiting). With degauss and slows on demand i can kite any melee class in this game. Im pretty much an unstopabble force of destruction until a marauder, a tankasin or a good sniper who outplays / outgears me shows up.
Believer - Seer - Fatman - RETIRED

Jkelectronet Poledancer new healstar inc.

Atracin's Avatar


Atracin
07.16.2012 , 03:31 PM | #27
The opinion of a PVP Assault Specialist:

1. Assault Spec Vanguards are OP, and we should nerfed. I hear nothing else on the other 2 trees.
2. We kind of are OP, but not to the extent of the PVP threads say. If Assault damage is to be decreased, then damage in the other 2 trees should be increased. Other wise, I am happy where we are.
Jung Ma Atracin (50 Vanguard)
<Chinese Take-out>
Dark side choices are much more fun than light side.

HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
07.16.2012 , 03:52 PM | #28
Statement: I play as the Vanguard Plasma Cell spec (I forget the name).

1.) Answer: I've seen many perceive it as OP or broken.

2.) Answer: I don't see it as broken or OP. And I'm not being biased. The Assault Plastique with the High Impact Bold does do quite a bit of damage right off the bat. But it's not broke like everyone thinks. I've gone up against others on my own side and was defeated fast (though that was in part because of the group doing their own individual thing). The survivability when not being healed isn't as good as it should be I think. I may not have 100% Battlemaster (missing the boots, implants. and earpiece) but I can still hold my own. However the fact that Assassins, Sorcerers, and Shadows can defeat me fairly well isn't all that fun, and then Agents (specifically Operatives) are just messed up. Taking a bunch of damage from Snipers is understandable because that's their AC.

Opinion: But Agents being able to defeat me with just stun+stab isn't right. And it's happened with those who don't have BM gear. I'm not going to say what should be changed with them and such, but I will say that something to get them off my back would be great. Something to finish the cooldown of Tenacity would help in that situation. Empire has plenty of stuns as to Troopers so there isn't much room to complain about breaking stun. There's also dealing with the Sorcerer Agent and Mercenary (I think it's Merc) being able to rapid heal to full health when having almost no health and 2 people attacking them. But I'll holler about that more with my Sage.

Request: I would like to know why when going from Battlemaster to War Hero gear there are changes in stats. The stats should increase in numbers not change what the armor has.

Hypothetical: I don't remember anything specific but this gives an idea of what I'm talking about. Eg. Going from BM Combat Tech chest to WH Combat Tech there is a removal of Critical and instead you get Surge. (Battlemaster has critical, War Hero does not)

Query: Why?

Statement: Other than that there's not much to say. I enjoy being Trooper. I don't enjoy being defeated so quickly.
PAX REPUBLICA
SWTOR Thread Guild Website
Casual PVP with Hardcore Determination
Prophecy of the Five | Justicar | International Guild

Ronable's Avatar


Ronable
07.16.2012 , 04:12 PM | #29
How do I perceive my class?
* Incredibly deadly pvp damage. 8/8/25 spec.
* The most massive single target burst damage in the game.
* A little squishy because a lack of cooldowns. But doesn't matter in team pvp because my damage is insane.

How do others perceive my class?
* Very overpowered burst damage capabilities (and quite rightfully so).
* Highly sought for RWZ's.
* High damage capabilities.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
07.16.2012 , 04:44 PM | #30
1. I think other think of this as the primier tanking class, and I prefer healing power techs way more than any other class because they are not very prone to taking spike damage. the fact that the have a pull amnd a chage gives great uptilituy for handeling various mob topologies and comositions.

2. I think this is a very well rounded tanking class, as the cooldown roation is sensible, and the resource managment is not as much of a chore as other classes (I am used to sorc healing). I have yet to do much end game content on my vangaurd tank since my lvl 50 vangaurd tank is on the PTS.