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Class Feedback


Kawiki's Avatar


Kawiki
07.16.2012 , 12:57 PM | #11
1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?
PVE:
Kinetic - The worst tank due to spikyness and low Armor mitigation.
Infil - Most secretly will want another AC.
Balance - See infil

PvP:
Kinetic - Most believe it to be over powered while wearing DPS gear. Too much utility.
Infil - Useless.
Balance - Useless.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?
PVE:
Kinetic - Threat generationg is very good. AOE threat among the best in the game but we probably make the worst AOE tanks due to the KW mechanics and low Armor mitigation. Poorly designed. Self heals seem insignificant since 1.3. Way too spiky to be a main tank.
Infil - Most secretly will want another AC.
Balance - See Infil

PvP:
Kinetic - Strong in DPS gear. True Tanking is better left to the other 2 ACs as we have the worst PvP mitigation due to a low armor rating. Utility is very strong
Infil - Useless.
Balance - Useless.

Xinika's Avatar


Xinika
07.16.2012 , 12:59 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by CommunitySupport View Post
Hi everyone,

We’re looking for some specific feedback about each Advanced Class and spec. Your feedback here, along with other feedback we’ve been gathering and our internal metrics, may guide future class balance changes. Similar threads will be found in every Advanced Class forum.

Here are the two questions that we’d like to ask (please only post about specific specs that you actively play, and don’t forget to tell us which one you’re talking about!):

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?
2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Please answer the post using the same format and in no more than 2-3 sentences per question.

This is not a discussion thread, so please do not debate others’ feedback – everyone gets to share what they think. Any off-topic or unconstructive posts (or any that do not follow the above guidelines) will be removed without warning.

Remember, this isn’t the only thread we’re looking at for feedback – if you have more feedback than fits the above guidelines, please feel free to post a discussion thread. We’re looking to get some specific insights here, but we are always reading the forums to gather feedback and player concerns.

Thank you!
1 - Currently my class is being perceived as the weakest DPS and I am fighting for a spot on ranked teams. Simply due to the fact that other classes can do it better. Has nothing to do with my capability as a player. More and more people are coming to the realization of where our class is in general. We are on the bench of being replaced.

2 - KC nerf was slightly overdone. I believe the healing should be restored. Balance has too much of a ramp up and the only true usage out of it is it's utility. The damage is lackluster. Infiltration simply does not cut it for high-end PvP. This whole "lone ranger" aspect doesn't work for a teamplay game at all. Especially since KC is better at solo play. So where exactly does that leave infil? You claim Infil has good burst, but have you seen what a Pyro PT can do?
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Neamhan's Avatar


Neamhan
07.16.2012 , 01:01 PM | #13
I only play Kinetic so my thoughts will be on tanking.

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?
PvE: Others perceive Shadow Tanks as underpowered when trying to tank the most difficult content.

PvP: Others perceive Shadow Tanks as overpowered due to wearing DPS gear while in a tank spec or tank/hybrid spec.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?
PvE: I agree that Shadows Tanks are underpowered when trying to tank the most difficult content due the poor (and annoying) Kinetic Ward mechanic and having to rely on the crutch of self-healing to make up for deliberately poorer mitigation. Self-healing does not compensate for being deliberately gimped as a tank because it does not scale up with gear or the number of opponents faced and it can't be used reliably (when CCed, interrupted or when movement is required).

PvP: I think the perception of Shadow Tanks as 'overpowered' in PvP is a bit overblown, but I'm one of the few who have tried to make the spec work in tank gear and playing as a tank. In that role I think they are actually underpowered, especially after the recent nerf. This is due largely to tank stats (defense and shield) being mostly ineffective in PvP coupled with the enormous amount of armor piercing attacks and high spike damage (which a Shadow will be able to mitigate the least). Whatever adjustments are made should both increase the effectiveness of actual tanking but disincentivize wearing DPS gear as a tank, which should hopefully solve both problems.

Malles's Avatar


Malles
07.16.2012 , 01:11 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by CommunitySupport View Post
Hi everyone,

We’re looking for some specific feedback about each Advanced Class and spec. Your feedback here, along with other feedback we’ve been gathering and our internal metrics, may guide future class balance changes. Similar threads will be found in every Advanced Class forum.

Here are the two questions that we’d like to ask (please only post about specific specs that you actively play, and don’t forget to tell us which one you’re talking about!):

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?
2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Please answer the post using the same format and in no more than 2-3 sentences per question.

This is not a discussion thread, so please do not debate others’ feedback – everyone gets to share what they think. Any off-topic or unconstructive posts (or any that do not follow the above guidelines) will be removed without warning.

Remember, this isn’t the only thread we’re looking at for feedback – if you have more feedback than fits the above guidelines, please feel free to post a discussion thread. We’re looking to get some specific insights here, but we are always reading the forums to gather feedback and player concerns.

Thank you!
1. She's a stealth class with tanking capability. Won't be able to tell which spec she is until she attacks me.
2. I love sneaking around and CCing random people. She plays a lot like my rogue from World of Warcraft.
I used simple happy language words to help you understand.

Why yes, I have been a proud SWTOR Community member since August 2011. Why, wanna fight about it?

Ihrae's Avatar


Ihrae
07.16.2012 , 01:20 PM | #15
I switch on e regular base Kinetic (tank) or Infiltration (DPS), mainly in PvE.

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

Kinetic tank: varies from OK to disappointed having a Shadow as a tank. Perception is that this is the worst tank. Within the guild though perception tends to be better than outside. Also, I have been turned away by raidleaders as a tank when trying to attend Operations. "Sorry, no Shadow tank". The nerf made things worse.

Infiltration DPS: People are either impressed or disappointed. Impressed, because you can obliterate even strong NPCs. Disappointed, because in Operations the average DPS is very significantly lower than other DPS classes.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Kinetic tank: Overall I love the class, but there are select situations where you do not feel being a tank. These vulnerabilities create the Shadow tank reputation. Interrupt should be shorter same as Guardian, and you should have tools to face situations where you get lots of hits in a short timeframe or extremely high hits that you mitigate less than other tanks and are not foreseeable (if foreseeable, there is resilience).

Infiltration DPS: Good class for some hit and run or on very static Boss where you can sty behind and ripp them. Yet I think they should be able to have a rotation that is effective for Boss fights. Left about 200-250 DPS behind others, such as Sage.

Blev's Avatar


Blev
07.16.2012 , 01:40 PM | #16
Note: I main a Guardian, and this will mostly deal with PvE tanking, Kinetic, spec.

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

Very, very good AE tank, though, can be quite squishy when compared to Guardian/Vanguard. Does superior damage output as a tank. Decent utility with stealth + CC and some of the debuffs it can apply.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

This spec seems a lot more complex than the other two tanks mainly because you have to watch your stacks of Harnessed Shadows. Mess up and go early or lag and not get something off, and you just lost stacks and didn't heal yourself.

Shadow tank is very squishy especially with the way Kinetic Ward is implemented. If you don't have that up or mobs eat through it quick like in AE situations, you can get hammered real quick. The self healing probably needs to be upped in some manner, or durability needs to go up.

PS: Pebbles aka Telekinetic Throw is still extremely stupid looking and nowhere near the aesthetic awesomeness that is the Assassin's lightning. Find a way to change it so it isn't so terrible looking.
Blev - Jedi Guardian | Caladium - Sith Sorcerer | Ranwyn - Commando
Sarinn - Scoundrel | Serwyn - Jedi Sentinel | Varlene - Jedi Shadow

Denchet's Avatar


Denchet
07.16.2012 , 01:56 PM | #17
Kinetic Combat

PVE from a high end raider's perspective (we've cleared HM Kephess 9 times now and are gearing alt specs).

Wearing perfect, or at least extremely close to perfect mitigation gear:
Armor: 6141 (40.25%)
Defense 399 (27.66%)
Shield 570 (65.66% with Kinetic Ward)
Absorb 576 (60.28%)

How others perceive Shadow Tank:
My guild has no problem. My partner tank, a Vanguard, jokes about how OP I am due to resilience and our dodge cooldown. Healers also seem to have no issue, though they have commented that the 1.3 nerf was noticeable.

How I perceive Shadow Tank:
Still quite capable after the nerf. I'm tanking all of HMEC and Nightmare Pilgrim without issue. I think the nerf was slightly overdone; we are a bit squishier when it comes to sustained mitigation than Vanguard at least (according to our spreadsheets). I don't have any experience with Guardian. Useful tools like Resilience help to make up for this a bit, but we need our armor a little higher to help when we go on unlucky streaks with dodge/shielding.

lexiekaboom's Avatar


lexiekaboom
07.16.2012 , 02:25 PM | #18
Why did you delete my post?

You want opinions of the community but delete them if you don't like them?

My post said the exact same thing as everyone elses;

Tank spec

1) We are seen as the worst tank in the game without question. It's like losing the lottery when you end up having to deal with a shadow tank in your group, any healer would be much happier to have one of the other two tanks

2) Horrible and not any fun. I know I'm holding people back simply by trying to play this class in end game content to try to do so as little as possible.

Ignobull's Avatar


Ignobull
07.16.2012 , 02:37 PM | #19
Spec: Infiltration
PVP

1. Easily replaceable by specs that do the job better. Why are you not kinetic combat?

2. I love my spec, I am a true lone wolf. You leave one person guarding a node I will down them before you can respond. Not suitable to rated though, great for solo que.

Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
07.16.2012 , 02:42 PM | #20
I played straight Infiltration up to 1.3, but now that we've been told that it's a trash spec you have no intention of fixing, I decided to respec KC. Maybe with all the well reasoned and well documented teaching from the many shadow tanks who keep trying to explain to you how to fix our weak, broken, fiddly, squishy tank spec, I figure it will get fixed sometime. Or not. But since your senior designer has told us you don't give a crap about making Infil any good, ever, the spec is now clearly a dead end and not worth investing any more in. So today I gave my full set of Columi / Rakata to Nadia, whom I fully expect will make better use of it than I ever could.

1. Everyone knows Infiltration is weak. Weak, weak, weak. As a DPS class, you are nothing but an anchor on your party, whether in PUG HMs or guild ops. It's brilliant for blitzing dailies, and good for absolutely nothing else in the game. In that respect, you do seem to at least understand the same thing everyone else already does, based on your senior people admitting you have written the spec off as useless in any group context.

2. I know it. You know it. Even yellow dog knows it. As DPS we are at the bottom of the barrel, no matter how well geared or well played (assuming other ACs bring equal skill and gearing, we will always come in last). My alt is a scoundrel healer, and at first I was amazed at how fast my random group finder PUGs ripped through hardmodes when we had two Sentinels as DPS . . . then I realized why it seems so much slower when I'm on my Shadow.