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Why do you not play ranked PvP?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why do you not play ranked PvP?

Moriam's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 01:33 PM | #121
I dont do ranked wzs because my guild really wants me to have like mostly wh augmented gear to begin with. This and the grind to get wh gear from regular warzones is horribly bad. I cannot stomach wasting all of this time to get wh gear.

I could get a pug group to get comms but those dont stay together for long after losses.

Also I played rbgs in wow to like 2k rating. I never really liked it. It just seems to reward bad players more often than in small pvp scenarios (read arena).

Right now my focus is to get as mamy 50s so I can play diligently next season and fight against the well geared groups and do well...

Helistin's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 01:38 PM | #122
Ranked were fun at first but when you end up playing with/agains't the 2 flavor classes every time it gets boring pretty quick.
Warzones need more class diversity.
Immortal Juggernaut Med Operative Rage Marauder Marksman Sniper

Smashbrother's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 01:52 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Aaroneus View Post
I don't play ranked because I'm just not that good.
Thank you for being honest. This is pretty much the REAL reason why most people don't do ranked, and not the ******** "oh I can't find 8 people", "oh my class sucks in RWZS" (not true unless your dps commando), "oh i'm not in full WH get with augments". All those lame excuses are simply to cover up the fact that you don't want to admit you suck.

Erasimus's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 02:08 PM | #124
This is still the Ranked Pre-season, so hopefully they devs will take the feedback and make adjustments before the season starts.

I think both solo queue and team queue can work, but to me they need the cross-server Ranked WZs in place first. Then I'd like to see, for ranked:

1. Minimum gear/expertise requirements to queue.
2. Brackets for matching based on Team ranking for team queues, and solo based on average player rankings.
"Give light and the darkness will disappear of itself."

VoidJustice's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 02:11 PM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
All those lame excuses are simply to cover up the fact that you don't want to admit you suck.
Everybody sucks...
compared to Master C. Norris

excusses are good business for game companies... if we were all face to face with the truth of our collective suck, no one would play.
Understanding is the true weapon of a Jedi and willpower is the iron clad arm that wields it.

Smashbrother's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 02:16 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
Here are the major issues as I see them:

1. Ranked WZs caters to a small subset of (PvP) players who want to make an Esport out of MMO PvP. Any game design that is only desired by ~5% of your playerbase is not a good use of development resources. There are far more issues that far more players would prefer to see BW working on rather than a PvP option that only serves a very small minority of Epeeners.
First off you're making up numbers. Secondly, if you've read this thread, most of the people do want to do RWZS. They just don't because of perceived gear, class balance, or lazy issues. Oh and how many people actually do the hardest end game pve content? Not that many, yet people don't cry foul when BW adds in new ops that most people won't do.

2. For all the reasons players hated Arena in WoW (forced PvP gear progression, excacerbated class imbalance issues, excluded class/specs), they will hate Ranked WZs. For all the reasons that Blizzard admitted in an interview years ago that their biggest mistake was introducing Arena, Bioware will find themselves in a similar position.
I loved arenas, but arenas are nothing like RWZs. In WOW, high ratings were the only way to get the best pvp gear, so only the best pvpers got the best gear, which created an issue. In TOR, you can do normal WZs to get the best gear, or do RWZs and lose 100% of your games and still get the best gear. Gear is also less of an issue in TOR. The diff between augmented BM and augmented WH isn't that big. My guild and I have done RWZs on alts wearing a mix of bm/wh/recruit and we still managed to beat full WH premades.

Arenas were also made of small groups (2s, 3s, 5s). Small groups cater to certain classes and causes massive class balance issues. RWZs on the other hand are teams of 8. The class balance isn't as rough here, and the only non viable class for RWZs is a dps commando. Everyone else can be viable if played right.

3. Ranked WZs were badly implemented. There's no ladder system to allow better teams to move up so that similarly ranked teams can be matched against each other, which is in large part due to the lack of participation and could be alleviated to a certain degree with cross-server queues. As it stands, new teams are forced to play against veteran teams, and the result is that one or two teams on each server completely dominate everyone else. This discourages participation, and in turn, causes Ranked WZs to become stagnant and undesirable.
I agree with this. I don't understand why our guild who is 2400+ rated gets team up with random pugs that are like 1000-1300 rated. This is very unfun for both sides, and this should be fixed. Cross server should fix it.

4. There's no incentive for Ranked WZs other than purple-black/orange-black Expertise crystals you can't get without a sufficient Ranking. Most players need to be full WH before stepping into Ranked WZs, at which point Ranked commendations are no longer important to a player. This means that the only real incentive for Ranked WZs is doing them for fun, which they currently are not, or for Epeen (also see #1 above).
What's the incentive to do anything in this game? Why do ops? Why even pvp? It's for the epeen. People want to have leet gear, whether its pve or pvp.

Once again, if you and your team is good, the gear is not as big of an issue as people like to think. Fully augmented BM gear team is plenty fine if you guys aren't bads. Also, losing a RWZ will still get you more ranked comms than winning 3 normal ones.

5. Ranked WZs require an 8-man team that not all guilds are able or willing to support due to other interests or availability issues. Some players who have actually wanted to participate in Ranked WZs are then forced to seek teammates from other guilds, in effect forming a PUG (pick-up group). Logistics issues aside, these PUGs are inherently at a disadvantage against full guild teams who have the benefit of constantly playing together (also see #3 above).
I was one of those players who didn't play RWZs much when 1.3 came out because I couldn't find enough good players to do them with. Guess what I did? Searched the forums and talked to other people, and found a good guild that did RWZs, applied to them, and got in. Now I play them regularly.

Don't blame BW for people's laziness.

6. Ranked WZs highlight class imbalance issues, and as a result, certain ACs/specs (Advanced Classes) are excluded because they aren't as competitive as others. An exclusionary PvP system isn't conducive to encouraging participation, which is necessary to keep it both viable and worthwhile. Unless Bioware is willing to focus a significantly larger amount of development resources on tuning balance issues than they currently do, this will only continue to plague them and erode player satisfaction.
While it's true dps commandos are poo for WZs, everything is very viable. I mentioned earlier my guild team is 2400+. Well we run with a dps sage, healer commando, dps shadow, combat sent. We do run into teams that are like 4 powertechs, or 2 powertechs and 2 maras, and we still beat them. While I agree VGs and sents need a slight nerf and some classes need a buff, it doesn't mean everyone else can't compete (except dps commandos cause they're lols).

In summary, it's my opinion that BW should get rid of Ranked WZs, at the very least in their current form. It's a feature that will only be missed by a very small percentage of players who aren't even getting to hardly play right now, let alone against any real or meaningful competition. If BW decides to push this PvP option forward against the wishes of their greater number of subscribers, then they need to figure out a way to make it much more fun, accessible, and fair for all players who wish to PvP. Frankly, their track record with PvP in this game doesn't give me much faith that they have the wherewithal to make that happen.
In summary, you don't like RWZs because you're bad.

Kyntari's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 02:20 PM | #127
I still play because I have a good team, but here are my thoughts.

1) PUGs and lesser-skilled groups get paired up too frequently against higher ranked teams and get smashed, over and over, until eventually they decide to stop queuing

2) Higher ranked teams get bored smashing lower ranked groups because it isn't competitive, and they get far less rating from it than winning against an equally rated team

3) The rating system seems a little wack, in that it will continue to award points for winning even extremely lopsided matches. I understand it's based on ELO, but right now it seems like it is possible to continue boosting ones rating indefinitely by winning matches where the outcome is basically a foregone conclusion.

4) Certain bugs interfere with competitive PvP ... the random lag spikes that hit everybody in a WZ at the same time right now are a good example of this. Another example is the 'camera freak out' where your view swings to a random direction, which has been in since release.

5) Class balance is not yet where it needs to be for rated play between organized teams

6) The maps are not ideal for closely-matched high ranked teams, Coin Star specifically, and to a lesser extent Civil War

I think what is most urgently needed here is a better matchmaking system, so that people can be reasonably confident that they will face opponents close to their skill level. This in turn basically requires a much larger pool to draw from i.e. cross-server queues.

Also, I think the matchmaking system should probably not just look at who is in the queue, but who is playing in games currently. For example, let's say I'm queued with my team that has 2200 rating, and the only other team in queue is 1800. There is a Huttball going on between 2 teams that are 2000, and it's almost over. Once that game ends, 2 games can be made: one with 1800v2000, and the other with 2000v2200. This is better than having 1 closely matched game (2000v2000) and 1 blowout (1800v2200).

Obviously there are a ton of gotchas with this approach -- for starters, you don't know that any team currently in a game is going to requeue after, and even if they do, they might sub people in between. Still, I think that anything that could result in more closely matched games is worth looking at.
Lithann | Operative | <Pkers> | P5

MidichIorian's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 02:22 PM | #128
I play dps sorc/sage and none of the top guilds on my server seem interested in taking one of those or they've already reached their maximum, one.

oredith's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 02:23 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyntari View Post
4) Certain bugs interfere with competitive PvP ... the random lag spikes that hit everybody in a WZ at the same time right now are a good example of this. Another example is the 'camera freak out' where your view swings to a random direction, which has been in since release.
kinda offtopic, but has BW addressed this as a known bug yet?

it is incredibly annoying.
flipp'n yo desk, like a bauss

Kyntari's Avatar

07.16.2012 , 02:26 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by oredith View Post
kinda offtopic, but has BW addressed this as a known bug yet?

it is incredibly annoying.
I don't know. I encourage everybody who experiences it (which seems to be many) to create a bug-report for it in game, whether or not BW has acknowledged it.
Lithann | Operative | <Pkers> | P5