Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Willpower vs power


leijae's Avatar


leijae
07.18.2012 , 02:27 PM | #11
Same gear, same buffs, same skills. The only difference is the augment in each piece of gear.

Shadow with Overkill Augments
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...5-67773af6a54b

Primary
Strength105.0
Presence225.0
Aim52.5
Cunning52.5
Endurance1757.0
Willpower1551.9
Secondary
Power596.0
Accuracy399.0
Alacrity0.0
Crit429.0
Surge171.0
Defense0.0
Shield0.0
Absorb0.0
Melee
Damage (Pri)857.5 - 1052.5
Bonus Damage468.5
Accuracy101.66%
Critical Chance30.43%
Critical Multiplier69.54%
Force
Bonus Damage746.0
Accuracy111.66%
Critical Chance29.59%
Critical Multiplier69.54%
Force Regen Rate8.0 / s
Activation Speed

Shadow with Resolve Augments
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...2-2795732bb3d4

Primary
Strength105.0
Presence225.0
Aim52.5
Cunning52.5
Endurance1757.0
Willpower1778.7
Secondary
Power380.0
Accuracy399.0
Alacrity0.0
Crit429.0
Surge171.0
Defense0.0
Shield0.0
Absorb0.0
Melee
Damage (Pri)853.1 - 1048.1
Bonus Damage464.1
Accuracy101.66%
Critical Chance31.61%
Critical Multiplier69.54%
Force
Bonus Damage741.7
Accuracy111.66%
Critical Chance30.76%
Critical Multiplier69.54%
Force Regen Rate8.0 / s
Activation Speed

Notice the difference in damage (melee and force) vs the difference in critical chance (barely over 1.1%, hell I'll even round it up to 1.2 for you) and you're trying to tell me that WP > P on the basis to "consider the damage crit puts out" I'm not concerned with 1%. Give me a break...

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.18.2012 , 02:43 PM | #12
Do you believe that an additional 0.3% damage (1052 damage - 1048 damage / 1052 damage) is preferable to +1.2% crit?

ICSWOR's Avatar


ICSWOR
07.18.2012 , 03:32 PM | #13
I did the math on what that 1% gives you.

(1048.1 * .3161 * .695) + 1048.1 = 1278.25656495 WP augments(max damage range)
(1052.5 * .3043 * .695) +1052.5 = 1275.09164625 Power augments(max damage range)

(853.1 * .3161 * .695) + 853.1 =1040.51711245 WP augments(min damage range)
(857.5 *.3043 *.695) + 857.5 = 1038.85138875 Power augments(min damage range)

The numbers are close but WP gives more DPS than Power, and the diffrence gets bigger in lowered gear levels.

The numbers at these gear levels are basically the same but if you have to pick one over the other WP wins, 3 damage more is still 3 damage more.

Either way your not gimping yourself by picking one over the other, if your a fresh 50 with greens WP will give you a bit more edge if your in full 61 gear it doesn't really make a diffrence which one you pick. I personally like seeing my WP over 2100.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
07.18.2012 , 05:55 PM | #14
I don't expect everyone to know the ins and outs of theorycrafting. But when someone else has done the math, looked at the game files, run simulations and parsed the numbers, you really should stop pretending you know more than they do. Daelia and Aurojiin have definitively shown that Willpower gives you more damage point for point than Power at least through gear levels that would give you willpower in the 9,000 range, which is about quadruple what you could achieve right now. This has been discussed in probably a dozen threads in the last month alone. Read up on it before you speak definitively.

If you want to ignore the numbers, fine. Stack power. It's not going to gimp you so that you can't run ops. You might not even notice much of a difference. But please stop pretending the numbers back your point. They don't.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.18.2012 , 05:58 PM | #15
^^

Exactly. The posts already made on the subject are very very clear.

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
07.18.2012 , 06:29 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by leijae View Post
Notice the difference in damage (melee and force) vs the difference in critical chance (barely over 1.1%, hell I'll even round it up to 1.2 for you) and you're trying to tell me that WP > P on the basis to "consider the damage crit puts out" I'm not concerned with 1%. Give me a break...
Absolutely and completely. I'm not going to grind over the math on this one; you've been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, both by elementary math and by extensive simulations, as others have pointed out.

What I do want to address is this strange mentality that crit chance becomes unimportant at some arbitrary point. We don't stop stacking crit because the value of crit chance's effects lessens, we stop because of the diminishing returns on the underlying stats that grant crit chance. By your logic, you shouldn't have any crit chance. If 1% isn't important, why aren't you at 29% instead of 30%? 28% instead of 29%? Ad infinitum. The reason you switch from Critical Rating to Power is because eventually Crit Rating no longer returns enough crit chance to outweigh the net effect on DPS from Power, not because crit chance has become less valuable at 30% for some magical reason.

Which brings us to Willpower. As a very elementary analysis, with a 75% multiplier, going from 30% to 31% crit chance raises the expected value of base damage from 1.225 to 1.2325. It doesn't take much to realise that with any attacks hitting for non-trivial amounts, this is going to outweigh the 4-5 extra bonus damage.

Ewgal's Avatar


Ewgal
07.19.2012 , 06:32 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
Yes, it's a personal decision. In this case, your personal decision to do less damage.

Willpower will increase your DPS by more than Power, point for point. This is a mathematically quantifiable fact. It's not about how much crit you feel is 'enough', it's simply that more crit increases your DPS, just as more bonus damage increases your DPS. The crit added by Willpower outweighs the slightly higher bonus damage from Power in net terms.
Look, there isn't really a right or a wrong to it. Yes, willpower will give you more crit, but there are advantages to the greater power. If you need to burst something down reliably with a few casts then +power is better than the extra crit. Longer term the more +crit from Willpower works out better, but unfortunately in PVE or PvP you don't just spam a target dummy for 5 mins, so the +Power can be an advantage when you have to nuke something quick.
May the farce be with you

leijae's Avatar


leijae
07.19.2012 , 08:54 AM | #18
The pvp aspect of dps damage demands for shadows to have a high and fast burst. A 1v1 battle doesn't last longer than a min unless you're 2 tanks or 2 healers going at it. So, I consistently hit for about 4700k-5200 in pvp with 3 different attacks. I get those numbers from stacking power. They may not be the highest in the game, but they're not that bad. I HAVE stacked willpower and did not get the same results (4500-5000). You're theory is great. But in all practicality it's worthless in PvP. However, I will give you this. in PvE, where battles last much longer, you're probably right to stack willpower as overtime you'll get the higher dps. So, I do concede in that sense. But, you won't win me over concerning PvP.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.19.2012 , 10:15 AM | #19
Quote:
Do you believe that an additional 0.3% damage (1052 damage - 1048 damage / 1052 damage) is preferable to +1.2% crit?
leijae, you still didn't answer my question.

Boarg's Avatar


Boarg
07.19.2012 , 10:55 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by leijae View Post
The pvp aspect of dps damage demands for shadows to have a high and fast burst. A 1v1 battle doesn't last longer than a min unless you're 2 tanks or 2 healers going at it. So, I consistently hit for about 4700k-5200 in pvp with 3 different attacks. I get those numbers from stacking power. They may not be the highest in the game, but they're not that bad. I HAVE stacked willpower and did not get the same results (4500-5000). You're theory is great. But in all practicality it's worthless in PvP. However, I will give you this. in PvE, where battles last much longer, you're probably right to stack willpower as overtime you'll get the higher dps. So, I do concede in that sense. But, you won't win me over concerning PvP.
The problem is you're overestimating the difference damage. Your crits don't hit 200 damage harder just from switching willpower augments to power augments.

You saw the math earlier on the change in melee damage and force damage on the character sheets and how small it is. Look up your abilities and find the coefficient to multiply that difference by. Even pre-mitigation, the difference isn't anywhere near 200 damage.