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Post FOTJ Novel announced: Crucible

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Post FOTJ Novel announced: Crucible

jtjohnson's Avatar


jtjohnson
07.14.2012 , 09:42 PM | #11
I just hope this new book is good, I haven't been very impressed with them lately. As for the 9+ book story arcs, I think they need to end and they need to go back to the trilogy format. I tried reading FOTJ but by book 5 I had to go back and thumb through the first 4 to refresh my memory so I gave up and I might pick them up again once they are all out in paperback.

TonyShadman's Avatar


TonyShadman
07.14.2012 , 09:59 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by jtjohnson View Post
As for the 9+ book story arcs, I think they need to end and they need to go back to the trilogy format.
A very good point. I recently went through the Thrawn Trilogy again and really liked the arc of it. I also was a big fan of the Bane Trilogy. So that would be very interesting to see set in the recent time period.

In response to what was said about the ending and Vestara, I am actually very happy with what ended up happening with her. As it was getting closer to the end, I wanted them to be together, but I wouldn't want her to change. Vestara is a Sith, and if the Legacy comics are really going to come true, her and Krayt have a lot to do.

Before Legacy happens, several key things have to occur.
-The Fel family has to reclaim the empire
-The Imperial knights must be founded (in contradiction of the sith)
-The Sith must ally with the Empire (while the Knights are still around and philosophically opposed to the dark side)

I love the Big 3, but I'm just so curious about the future...

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
07.15.2012 , 01:48 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyShadman View Post
A very good point. I recently went through the Thrawn Trilogy again and really liked the arc of it. I also was a big fan of the Bane Trilogy. So that would be very interesting to see set in the recent time period.

In response to what was said about the ending and Vestara, I am actually very happy with what ended up happening with her. As it was getting closer to the end, I wanted them to be together, but I wouldn't want her to change. Vestara is a Sith, and if the Legacy comics are really going to come true, her and Krayt have a lot to do.

Before Legacy happens, several key things have to occur.
-The Fel family has to reclaim the empire
-The Imperial knights must be founded (in contradiction of the sith)
-The Sith must ally with the Empire (while the Knights are still around and philosophically opposed to the dark side)

I love the Big 3, but I'm just so curious about the future...
Didn't Dark Horse say that the Legacy comics are a "what if" universe? Something about Lucas/Del Ray not being cool with locking down a time frame close to where we are?
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

TonyShadman's Avatar


TonyShadman
07.15.2012 , 07:31 AM | #14
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS ONLY READ IF YOU READ EXPANDED UNIVERSE AND ARE COMFORTABLE READING ABOUT LEGACY OF THE FORCE, FATE OF THE JEDI, LEGACY, AND RUMORS
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS ONLY READ IF YOU READ EXPANDED UNIVERSE AND ARE COMFORTABLE READING ABOUT LEGACY OF THE FORCE, FATE OF THE JEDI, LEGACY, AND RUMORS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS ONLY READ IF YOU READ EXPANDED UNIVERSE AND ARE COMFORTABLE READING ABOUT LEGACY OF THE FORCE, FATE OF THE JEDI, LEGACY, AND RUMORS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS ONLY READ IF YOU READ EXPANDED UNIVERSE AND ARE COMFORTABLE READING ABOUT LEGACY OF THE FORCE, FATE OF THE JEDI, LEGACY, AND RUMORS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS ONLY READ IF YOU READ EXPANDED UNIVERSE AND ARE COMFORTABLE READING ABOUT LEGACY OF THE FORCE, FATE OF THE JEDI, LEGACY, AND RUMORS



I thought that they had said that it was a possibility. To kind of leave it up in the air as to whether the the events that changed the who was sitting on the throne actually helped save the future. Personally I think that completely ditching everything from Legacy is a waste of some really cool material.

I just had a thought and maybe its just a good idea for a fanfic, but if the events of Legacy were a "What If" or just one alternate reality path that the universe could have taken, then a lot of the characters and developments still have to be there.

Ex: If there is a reality in which i ate an apple and I ended up growing up to be a doctor, and another reality in which I didn't eat an apple and became a lawyer. Yes my decision would change some of the galaxy, but most people that were going to be born would still be born, and most stuff would still happen.

We know that Krayt exists. He has been in almost every recent comic series and now in the books. We know that Jaina and Tahiri, two Jedi with a huge caution towards the dark side are getting cozy with the Imperials, and that the Imperials have been looking for force users to join their ranks and are tired of Sith. We know the "One Sith" are on Korriban from the Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi series, and we know that Vestara knows that there are Sith on Korriban, and that her and ship are very good at helping groups grow from a single ship to a fleet. Notice that in Legacy there is no mention of Abeloth, if stopping her saved the future, it didn't stop the future that Legacy was, because Abeloth never ruled that galaxy.

We also have no reason to believe that Vestara and Ben do not eventually have get married or have children. There hasn't been any mention of what happened to Ben Skywalker in any of the Legacy material. They could even have an illegitimate child (like so many people in Ben's family), then Ben could save the child and raise it Jedi while she dies a Sith.

There has been a lot of talk about Zahn doing books post Fate of the Jedi in which Ben helps the Empire of the Hand and they work with a clone of Grand Admiral Thrawn to help "save the galaxy." They've promised that Crucible will tell us a lot about what's to come.

Another think to discuss getting back to this book, here are two definitions of crucible:
1: A ceramic or metal container in which metals or other substances may be melted or subjected to very high temperatures.
2: A place or occasion of severe test or trial: "the crucible of combat".

Which definition do you think applies to the upcoming book? Will there be some kind of Crucible Device (ME3 much?) of unknown power? Will they build it or discover it?
OR..........Is the crucible merely alluding to a test or trial of the body, mind, or heart?

Ausstig's Avatar


Ausstig
07.15.2012 , 07:33 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
Didn't Dark Horse say that the Legacy comics are a "what if" universe? Something about Lucas/Del Ray not being cool with locking down a time frame close to where we are?
Nope it's cannon.

There have been a couple of vague statements, but so far it is cannon.

If anything is likely to be struck it should be the books. But despite Legacys flaws, War's ending inparticular, Imperors' LOL lets kill everyone, and both author pets made it stand out though it went down hill after 'claws of the dragon' and the fact that Cade was the only protagonist (I feel he should have been a co-lead with Sia, it is MUCH more popular and well written then any book after TUF, except for Betrayal.

So long and short NO LEGACY IS STILL CANNON.

Also not looking foreword to the book, mainly cause I don't like Denning,HATE Sab, also a HERO is someone who acts good, NOT someone who we are told is good or should ASSUME is good based upon previous actions if their current ones are evil. If it was say Stover or JJM, or Luceo I would be excited but not Denning had my fill of him at Apocalypse, when it became apparent he only deals in Black and less Black morality and thinks Luke is an GOD, who no mortal could hope to fight even on his worst day. Really sucks the tension out of a fight.
Have Force lightning will travel

TonyShadman's Avatar


TonyShadman
07.15.2012 , 07:49 AM | #16
Dude.... Luke is totally a God............................................HAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I know its blasphemes, but I'm way more a fan of EU than the movies, so I really don't have that much love for Luke Skywalker.
I love Mara, Lumiya, Jacen, Jaina, Amelia, Anakin Solo, Ben Skywalker, Cade Skywalker, Vestara Khai, Savage Opress, Darth Bane, Starkiller, Juno, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, Darth Revan, even Bastilla, the Nightsisters, Krayt, Tahiri, Abeloth, Talon, Kyle, Deliah, Maladi, Nihl, Sion, Wyyrlok, even Jag Fel, but not much love for Luke Skywalker.
More than half the people I just listed would destroy Luke in a 1 on 1 match in their primes. When Luke isn't cheating double teaming through the Spirit world.

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
07.15.2012 , 01:53 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Ausstig View Post
Nope it's cannon.

There have been a couple of vague statements, but so far it is cannon.
I seem to recall it being mentioned at a panel... Oh well... I doubt Legacy will remain canon. Many EU book fans hate it and the comics have always been less well received than the novels. Doubt it will stay in.

As to the poster that said, "Many things still have to happen..."

Here is the working theory as to why Legacy probably won't happen. We also know that some of it can't happen now.

That was the entire point of Jacen's vision.

Jacen saw Darth Krayt on the throne of balance. He specifically changed destiny to prevent that from happening. In doing so he released Abeloth.

This caused the Sith to act.

In Legacy's history the Sith remained hidden until around 127 ABY. Abeloth however changed that and the Sith outed themselves to the entire Galaxy (including the Empire) during the Abeloth incident. This means that the Empire is now on guard for them.

Also Krayt never revealed himself in the Legacy history to Luke Skywalker. In the FotJ books he actually did, Luke now knows he is out there, something that he didn't know before.

Krayt won't make it to the throne of balance, which is required for Legacy to take place.

Likely Jacen Solo's use of flow walking disrupted the possibility for many of the events to take place that created Legacy. Instead I expect us to see a war between the Sith and the Jedi coming up that replaces the Legacy timeline.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
07.15.2012 , 02:12 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
Didn't Dark Horse say that the Legacy comics are a "what if" universe?
Not at all. If any change occurs to Legacy, you'd be far more likely to see it pushed back in the timeline than removed. The only things that change because of this are numbers and a few questions about Krayt, Tr'a Saa, and K'kruhk's longevity which we can respectively presume will be explained as "Force statis, Neti can live long (see Ood Bnar), and K'kruhk's hat did it."

Legacy being written before Apocalypse accounts for why Krayt doesn't say "By the way, there was this one time, for twenty minutes, with this thing called Abeloth...". Alternatively, it is explained by Denning trying to attempt a continuity link in a spot where one was not really necessary to begin with. Really, what does FOTJ gain from Krayt's actual, physical presence? Not a whole lot. It was rather left field and very poorly implemented fan service used to fill in a mystery that Denning clearly had not planned an answer to at the series' beginning.

But regardless, the minor continuity change caused by Apocalypse doesn't sudden wipe out what comes after it. You know canon too well to truly think that. All it does it add a "This and...". Foggy window and all that. It also doesn't change because Apocalypse actually writes in an escape clause.

Simply put another way: Jacen's vision doesn't really work that way (ie. "You're not remembering things correctly".) Mostly because Jacen's actions, we are told in Apocalypse, were not to prevent the Dark Man. It was to prevent Allana from standing at his side. Jacen pretty much outright states that the release and defeat of Abeloth doesn't necessarily prevent the eventual rise of the Sith.

As to the new book: wonderful news. Now I know what not to spend my money on.
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."

Tuscad's Avatar


Tuscad
07.15.2012 , 03:03 PM | #19
In one of the future novels it would be funny if an author did a complete 180 and had the novel reveal that the legacy comics was a vision that a character received. "The future is always in motion." In my personal opinion I think they did the Legacy comics wrong by having them take place too close to the novels, I think they should have had it take place in at least 500 ABY.
Date Joined: March 2009 - Date unsubbed: 9/18/2012
It's been real but the game just wasn't worth the sub for me anymore.
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AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
07.15.2012 , 03:34 PM | #20
I feel I should amend my comment up above, if only slightly. I was only slightly off in my recollection. On page 409, Krayt offers the notion that Caedus only delayed the future he saw. I had mistakenly (and somewhat ironically) attributed this to Jacen. Still, this is pretty consistent with what we know and what we are told in sourcebooks. For instance, the Essential Guide to Warfare still includes Legacy's events with no change and still includes information relevant to Apocalypse at the same time.

I was still correct about Jacen, however. On the following page, he admits that "...the dark man had nothing to do with my decision." It was all because he saw Allana standing with him. That seems to be the thing Jacen's actions changed and not necessarily the eventual rise of the "Dark Man".
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."