KhalDrogoe Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 In 1.3, we saw the removal of Biochem's adrenals from WZ's. So thus making it more fair to people who didn't want to have Bio on their PvP toon. However now there is a SIGNIFICANT boost to players through the legacy system of class buffs. For someone that doesn't like leveling characters and will stick with their 1 toon despite how underpowered they are, they are limited to 1 class buff.... their own. Why is it that people that reroll each new FOTM get's the advantage of having all of the buffs to re-buff themselves after they die giving them an edge over the people that do not have that. Some possible solutions: 1) Make the legacy ability purchasable with credits (Like EVERY other legacy perk/buff except the buffs gained from grinding out all your companions affection ((which still is grindable with credits in an indirect way))) 2) Disable the ability to buff other classes buff for RWZ's. So instead of forcing people to buy the buffs to stay competitive, everyone just has to deal without (must as the case with the biochem adrenals) Does anyone else see how this can make a huge difference in a warzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elboc Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 You get all the class buffs at the beginning of the game, I dont see an issue. Just dont die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Wait, are you doing warzones by yourself ? i mean 1 vs 8 people? you do not have team mates? You do realize that the buffs are casted on the whole team (as long as they are in range and los), and are not individual, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I do not I never rerolled a character but I do have one of each and I actually pvp on my 4th character. I didnt do it for buffs because at the time there wasnt that legacy. In a wz I do not recall being dead alone ever and people are very good about rebuffing after they are dead. And I could be wrong here but if one person in the wz has all the legacy everyone gets all when they buff as well (not positive on that) So in an instance where no one of the other team has the legacy and they are missing a gs/sniper type would the other team have the advantage as well? In the grand scheme of things I wouldnt say it a huge deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDrogoe Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Wait, are you doing warzones by yourself ? i mean 1 vs 8 people? you do not have team mates? You do realize that the buffs are casted on the whole team (as long as they are in range and los), and are not individual, right? After your first death in a warzone, you respawn with NO class buffs. The only way to acquire them is to run into range of someone that has the ones you're missing. Now for someone who grinds out 1 of each class and plays them through the end can cast ALL the class buffs on themselves after they respawn. Let's say in Alderaan Civil War, there is 1 guy defending a turret. I attack him sit at about half health, cap the turret. He is in the meantime taking the long speeder ride back. Then he kills me and retakes the turret for his team. But after I respawn and take the speeder down to face him again. If he grinded all of the classes he now has 3 or more class buffs to my one, and thus is at a distinct advantage perhaps enabling him to fight me off at half health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trondaddy Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 this really is not an issue. please take your whining to another thread. Oh and nerf stunlocking operatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDrogoe Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I do not I never rerolled a character but I do have one of each and I actually pvp on my 4th character. I didnt do it for buffs because at the time there wasnt that legacy. In a wz I do not recall being dead alone ever and people are very good about rebuffing after they are dead. And I could be wrong here but if one person in the wz has all the legacy everyone gets all when they buff as well (not positive on that) So in an instance where no one of the other team has the legacy and they are missing a gs/sniper type would the other team have the advantage as well? In the grand scheme of things I wouldnt say it a huge deal No legacy is only per account. If you didn't grind out the excess characters you don't get to buff yourself with everything. And you're right! If no one on your team has ever had an operative that completed chapter 2 of their storyline, no one is getting the 5% crit! (a persistent 5% crit is HUGE compared to the adrenals that didn't grant even half that much, but they still nerfed em to hell and put biochems out of their job. The better way would be to just remove the requirement of 400 biochem on those adrenals instead of just removing them altogether from wz's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 So ask for buffs, and find something else to whine about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidopro Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yeah at first I thought none of that legacy crap would be usable in PvP but whatever if people put in the time to get the buffs then they deserve the advantage do they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobiusZero Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Legacy buffs have no place in PvP, period. Not only is it unfair to people who purely PvP and don't grind out new characters, but its also unfair to classes who are no longer needed in a WZ for their unique buff. Edited July 10, 2012 by MobiusZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDrogoe Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Legacy buffs have no place in PvP, period. Not only is it unfair to people who purely PvP and don't grind out new characters, but its also unfair to classes who are no longer needed in a WZ for their unique buff. Which brings up another valid point! People can effectively stack one class and not be at a disadvantage buff wise if they had someone grind out the legacy. In my opinion if they're not bringing one of those classes, they should have to HAVE that disadvantage in RWZ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I would love to have them purchaseable. But hey, they want you to reroll and waste more time =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antidentite Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 anything related to legacy has NO business in pvp. Period. The End. *** BW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gidoru Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Ya i think giving you the option of buying the buffs would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I leveled up 3 alts to chapter 2 so I can do all 4 buffs by myself just for PvP. Let's not pretend this isn't a huge advantage in PvP since you can't count on having other people around to buff you when they're busy fighting (the buff costs a GCD). I don't think it's fair but then forcing each team to have one of every archtype to start off at an even ground is just as bad too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbleDncr Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Legacy buffs have no place in PvP, period. Not only is it unfair to people who purely PvP and don't grind out new characters, but its also unfair to classes who are no longer needed in a WZ for their unique buff. Look at it this way - the people who have enough alts to have all the class buffs won't have as good gear as people who purely PVP on one toon - and your significantly higher expertise is probably more valuable than their buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Look at it this way - the people who have enough alts to have all the class buffs won't have as good gear as people who purely PVP on one toon - and your significantly higher expertise is probably more valuable than their buffs. It's not hard to have both. I'd be in support of just allowing the legacy buffs to be buyable with credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDrogoe Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Look at it this way - the people who have enough alts to have all the class buffs won't have as good gear as people who purely PVP on one toon - and your significantly higher expertise is probably more valuable than their buffs. Okay... but while we're both PvP'ing they'll be able to continue to raise their expertise. I can PvP all day and never gain those new buffs. I can't buy an "increase everything 5%" piece of armor with warzone comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverRose Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Nerf operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrias Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Whatever happened to the concept of "You want a specific bonus, you go out of your way to get/earn it"? This really isn't any different from saying: "It's not fair that some people have played more PvP but less PvE than me have full War Hero sets: 1: Make it so that War hero gear is purchasable with just credits. 2: Make it so that War hero gear isn't better than other stuff so that time invested doesn't equate to a bonus." That's pretty much what you're saying, except with a different subject. There's nothing stopping you from going out and getting these buffs for yourself, it didn't have it's availability limited to a specific time frame. Secondly, at some point, I imagine they will be purchasable with credits. I recall Bioware saying that some things were going to start off as legacy only unlocks and then transition into credit unlocks in the future. If you're not content to wait for when/if that happens, then you have to ask yourself how much the buffs mean to you. If they are that massive a difference to your viability, as an avid PvP'er you'll gladly go out and acquire the buffs. If they're not that massive that they warrant you putting effort in, then it's probably also not worth complaining about. As a side note: Most dedicated PvPers that I know have rolled multiple classes, and that was before the buff sharing came into effect. They do it because a good PvP player knows the other class almost as well as their own, which is a level of understanding you can only genuinely get by playing it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm all for making it purchasable with credits, but let's be honest here. Getting past chapter 2 for a class is easy as ****. You don't need to level them to 50, just finish chapter two. I haven't tried this, but maybe if you had a high level friend help you, you might be able to just finish all your class quests up to chapter 2 w/o having to get level 40 ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funick Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Which brings up another valid point! People can effectively stack one class and not be at a disadvantage buff wise if they had someone grind out the legacy. In my opinion if they're not bringing one of those classes, they should have to HAVE that disadvantage in RWZ's. which 8 mans are you worried about that would be missing a buff otherwise? yes certain classes are more commonly used but pretty much any optimal set up I can think of has all 4 buffs represented. yes you can stack one class but it would already be suboptimal regardless of buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoofKnight Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 So, because you don't want to level up alts to maximise your PvP potential, you want the benefit of doing so removed from the game, or at least from PvP? Well, I don't want to have to grind out valor and commendations, can't we just make War Hero gear available to buy for credits? Or even better, make it free? That way, as soon as I'm level 50, I can go toe to toe with the guys who have been grinding out PvP at 50 for weeks because I demand an equal playing field. C'mon, lets make it fair 'an all! The argument goes both ways and both are equally pointless. I love the fact that you have the ability to gain shared benefits for all your characters. Yes it's effort and yes, until you get them it means your weaker than someone who has them, but the same goes for everything in life. Except for one key point, we have equal opportunity to get them. I have 1 alt, and I play casual. I don't have all the buffs; but the option to go get them is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoofKnight Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Whatever happened to the concept of "You want a specific bonus, you go out of your way to get/earn it"? This really isn't any different from saying: "It's not fair that some people have played more PvP but less PvE than me have full War Hero sets: 1: Make it so that War hero gear is purchasable with just credits. 2: Make it so that War hero gear isn't better than other stuff so that time invested doesn't equate to a bonus." That's pretty much what you're saying, except with a different subject. There's nothing stopping you from going out and getting these buffs for yourself, it didn't have it's availability limited to a specific time frame. Secondly, at some point, I imagine they will be purchasable with credits. I recall Bioware saying that some things were going to start off as legacy only unlocks and then transition into credit unlocks in the future. If you're not content to wait for when/if that happens, then you have to ask yourself how much the buffs mean to you. If they are that massive a difference to your viability, as an avid PvP'er you'll gladly go out and acquire the buffs. If they're not that massive that they warrant you putting effort in, then it's probably also not worth complaining about. As a side note: Most dedicated PvPers that I know have rolled multiple classes, and that was before the buff sharing came into effect. They do it because a good PvP player knows the other class almost as well as their own, which is a level of understanding you can only genuinely get by playing it yourself. You beat me to it! Damn you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoofKnight Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Which brings up another valid point! People can effectively stack one class and not be at a disadvantage buff wise if they had someone grind out the legacy. In my opinion if they're not bringing one of those classes, they should have to HAVE that disadvantage in RWZ's. Whut? Please explain how I can bring all of the classes to get the buff, without: Having the legacy buff, because you want it removingHaving at least 4 PCs and playing them simultaneously with skillBeing in a pre-made? Oh, so now you're forcing me to play pre-made? Anything else you would like to change about the way I play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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