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If you really want to make a person better in a PVP match...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
If you really want to make a person better in a PVP match...
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Mardalador's Avatar


Mardalador
07.09.2012 , 11:51 AM | #1
Actually tell them what they're doing wrong. Don't complain about it after you lose or something. Give them tips during the match and give them advice in a nice way.
Right after my team lost a Hutball game a person who was a sore loser randomly said, "You snipers can't DPS worth a ****," not giving us any hint beforehand that we were doing anything wrong. It would've been helpful for him to bring it up during the match so we could have actually won. And for one thing, the guy kinda pissed me off, me being a sniper and all. And I was second to first place on the leaderboard... just saying.
Give advice and tips, and most of all, be considerate. No one wants to listen to someone who yells at them and ragequits.
------- O->--<
"NOOO!!! You killed him!!!"

AllisonBerryman's Avatar


AllisonBerryman
07.09.2012 , 12:05 PM | #2 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
This is a nice post to see! Last week, I made a post in a similar thread about Group Finder groups, and I agree 100%. Offering a little constructive advice can go a long way, especially for new players.

Don't forget that, often, name-calling and being mean will just make your team lose focus, and you won't motivate anyone to do better by just calling them a bad. If you can't offer some advice, it's better to keep the rage inside!

Anyone who really wants to win should definitely consider offering advice or even just communicating. Something as simple as asking someone to help you line up a pass in Huttball can help even a random team perform better. Oh! And don't forget to say something nice to people who are helping or who are doing a great job - encouraging others who take the time to offer advice and help out is a great way to reinforce the behavior!

Alericus's Avatar


Alericus
07.09.2012 , 12:11 PM | #3
Only problem with your suggestion is.......while the player who thinks he knows everything is typing his from on high advice usually he isnt fighting thus handicapping us further...I cant tell you how many matches Ive lost because two or more players on my team get into a flame war in Ops chat...then once the litttle babies start pouting..our team starts losing. The simple fact is, chat just leads to flame wars and trolling it seems to be the biggest problem with the nature of anonymous chat and pug teams. I also think its an issue in guilds as well, thus the repeated offer of "drama free" play environments. The simple fact is most people who pvp think they are the man......the truth is very few players are really that good. Most losses are a team effort and most wins are a team effort. If you can see that it takes a team to win you are way ahead of those who think they know it all and spend an entire match yapping and telling the rest of the team they suck, bite etc etc. The guides are out there and what you need to play well is a mixture of team play, practice and patience. The last being what most gamers are missing in droves.
Alaricus
"Through Strength I Gain Power!"

Dissentus's Avatar


Dissentus
07.09.2012 , 12:17 PM | #4
It's hard to bring up a lengthy discussion about what someone is doing wrong in a match, but you are right. I wouldn't sweat these people that run their mouths though, as usually they are just looking for excuses and can't accept the fact that they had poor performance themselves. They need a scapegoat.
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VoidJustice's Avatar


VoidJustice
07.09.2012 , 12:23 PM | #5
This is best done after the match. There is no quick in match fix. Your best solution "in match" is to simply be encourgaging to your team or give tactical suggestions that do not "single" people out. Sportsmanship is contageous... try it.

If you want to improve game play. Head to corsucant departures (south air lock from fleet/ sorry imps... figure it out... lol) and start dueling with people... Just keep it friendly and keep your e-peens out of it. Back on my old server I'd always have my guildmates come and have friendly duels after each duel we'd talk about the duel and it's whys and what happeneds... KEEP IT LITE, KEEP IT FRIENDLY AND KEEP IT SHORT... This allows everyone some time to learn, and if you keep the emphasis on "LEARNING" and keep people from "BRAGGING" or in general acting like ... idiots... then everyone learns and you wind up with some serious @zz kickers. 1 duel at a time and let everyone learn from it. Folks who are interested can talk about tactics to try in matches etc... Keep everyone participating and treat everyone with respect... Win, win, win...

also... never surrender.
Understanding is the true weapon of a Jedi and willpower is the iron clad arm that wields it.

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
07.09.2012 , 12:24 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Alericus View Post
...The simple fact is, chat just leads to flame wars and trolling it seems to be the biggest problem with the nature of anonymous chat and pug teams...
Not actually true. When you get confrontational or start making accusations, then you start an argument that isn't going to help your team.

That's not what is being supported here, but rather dissuaded.

If you can bite back the frustration and say something that might actually help you win - rather than vent frustration - you improve your chances.

Going off at your teammates is childish and counterproductive. Retaining self-control is harder. but more likely to succeed, both in the individual battle short-term and the longer-term where you improve the play of people you're grouped with in future.

I realise this can sometimes be very, very hard.
Hasa'diga Eewokai
Ilmarinen 60 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)

AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
07.09.2012 , 12:35 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Wainamoinen View Post
Going off at your teammates is childish and counterproductive.

Agreed with the general notion here, which is usually why I limit any WZ communication to important information. It's fairly hard to coach or discuss things in the heat of the match. When you type, you're not playing after all. If it is a small thing like "Fight on the node", then it is possible but more often than not, you can't really do too much until things have played out. The important thing is to make sure that if you follow up with someone after a match, that you be careful to do so respectfully. More often than not, tempers can flare even from honest, simple /tells and such. Some times people are reticent to take advice. Understanding it from their angle too is important. But at the end of the day, you'll hopefully be able to foster better cooperation and team play.
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
07.09.2012 , 12:37 PM | #8
Also, there is usually time to type a quick sentence - when waiting to respawn, or sitting at a node.

After the match if I think it needs a bit more depth. I'll generally only break off to type while fighting if it's immediately urgent (I'm getting ganked by stealthers at a node; I can see my teammate happily scampering the ball towards our own line; "please kill the marked healer first"; etc), then short is of course best.
Hasa'diga Eewokai
Ilmarinen 60 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)

SinnedWill's Avatar


SinnedWill
07.09.2012 , 12:37 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
This is a nice post to see! Last week, I made a post in a similar thread about Group Finder groups, and I agree 100%. Offering a little constructive advice can go a long way, especially for new players.

Don't forget that, often, name-calling and being mean will just make your team lose focus, and you won't motivate anyone to do better by just calling them a bad. If you can't offer some advice, it's better to keep the rage inside!

Anyone who really wants to win should definitely consider offering advice or even just communicating. Something as simple as asking someone to help you line up a pass in Huttball can help even a random team perform better. Oh! And don't forget to say something nice to people who are helping or who are doing a great job - encouraging others who take the time to offer advice and help out is a great way to reinforce the behavior!
Nice to see someone on the bill offering an opinion on a thread like this, I don't think I've seen many of the devs/moderators express their own opinions (which is always welcomed and I'd love to see more of it).
Back to the OP: I, too, agree with the whole constructive criticism > "OMG u r teh suck" comments that usually come at the end of matches. But... sometimes it's more harfmul overall to actually stop what you're doing to type in advice mid-match while you're losing. Usually when I notice that someone has done something wrong, I'll message them after the match and refer to the situation - unfortunately, it seems that very few people wish to hear that they've done anything wrong and they insist that they are the best at their class/spec with the best possible strategy.

Heck, even in matches where I hear teammates cry out that "player x" or "their entire team is hacking!", I'll attempt to explain to them what's going on (i.e. their team was moving fast because they had a marauder giving predation; that vengeance juggernaut couldn't be stunned because he has immunity to it for 4s after charge; that Powertech was moving fast and immune to slows because he use hydraulic overrides; etc...) - I'll even try to explain to people after a match where I've been accused of hacking by telling them what I did (albeit, they're resolute in insisting that they're right 99% of the time in this situation, so I simply tell them to go ahead and report it if they really think I am) - now, I don't hack, and I've never been suspended, but I had a guildy get suspended for "speed-hacking" despite the fact that he wasn't (he was an AP PT, so he has hydraulic overrides, and I was on my carnage marauder, giving out improved predation like candy) - I was honestly shocked to hear that he got suspended (we get accused/reported of speed-hacking daily - and no matter how many times I/we have explained what we're doing, they simply refuse to belive us, so sure, feel free to report) - I just wish they (whomever it was that actually suspended him) would have actually bothered to notice that I had been present on my carnage marauder and he has his own speed-boost mechanic before deciding that he was doing something to voilate TOS.

Anyways, it took him ~18 hours of e-mail appealing, and my guildmate's suspension was lifted (and compensated 15 days of playtime).
Mains: TheSinner - Madness Sorc; Scornful - Carnage Marauder
Minis: Scorned - Deception Assassin; Sinbane - Pyro Powertech; Sinborn - Marksman Sniper
Guild: Physics
Server: The Shadowlands by way of Dreshdae Cantina.

Igniteeee's Avatar


Igniteeee
07.09.2012 , 12:38 PM | #10
What people sometimes forget in PvP and what often makes them rage is: Sometimes your team is just simply outmatched.

People get angry and start insulting eachother when their team's strategy didn't work and now they want to call out the team on how bad they are consequently causing a flame war in chat and inevitably getting nothing done.

What needs to happen is: People need to realize when they are outclassed or 'out-thought' and instead of complaining, try harder. Even if your match is doomed to fail just keep coming up with strategies and try your hardest.

What the majority of people who rage in ops chat fail to realize: PvP is just a game, you're supposed to have fun, do what is fun for you. Maybe your idea of fun is trying your hardest to win, if so do that. Maybe your idea of fun is zerging mid in Civil war or Novare Coast, if so do it, but keep your teammates in mind when you do that. Zerg mid if you have a group don't go blindly by yourself, if you do that, the result will be better, even if you fail.

I know this has kinda been rambling (sorry), but just keep in mind: Games are meant for fun.
Nerf Operatives again... It's clearly the solution...