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Extreme Prototype: AP/Pyro Hybrid

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Extreme Prototype: AP/Pyro Hybrid

Grimoir's Avatar


Grimoir
07.10.2012 , 12:01 PM | #11
Ill just uhh....leave this here.
~The Jykoor Legacy of The Bastion(PvP)~
Anasė - Terminal Velocity[Hybrid] Powertech - Level: 55
Jerīcho - Tactics Vanguard - Level: 55

Rischardo's Avatar


Rischardo
07.10.2012 , 01:32 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by dardack View Post
I'm gonna have to do PvP dummy tests to see if CG or 3/3 PPA is better. It'll be a bit if someone else wants to do this let me know. I'd rather have someone with the 15% crit to RS test this.
welp, I decided that ya'll were right. After checking my logs after an hour and a half of PvPing, I saw that my RS crit chance was only about 58%. CG is a nice idea in theory and important if you're going to use this build in PvE. You can simply move the point from H/O though to CG if you want to PvE with this spec. For PvP, though, it's simply too unreliable. Sometimes you forget to put it on. Sometimes your target dies before it gets the full bleed off etc. etc.

It's too bad I didn't check my bank before augmenting my gear and moving my mods. I completely forgot that I had a 4 pc Champion eliminators that I could use. Oh well, I guess 4 pc PvE combat tech is still pretty good...and it looks a lot better.

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
07.10.2012 , 03:42 PM | #13
These builds have been floating around since pre 1.1 patch when exphyrl came out with it. Agooz than took it and ran with it using Maverick before dropping it before 1.3. Grimoir took it over pre 1.3 and renamed it Terminal Velocity. All-in-all it's been done, and it's a decent spec that doesn't have as strong a burst as 31pt's, but gains a bit more utility. The sad part is in every test we ran for Agooz it's the second highest damage spec for the powertech. It caused me to open a complaint thread to the forum moderates about the overamped Combustible Gas Cylinder.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Rischardo's Avatar


Rischardo
07.10.2012 , 04:27 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
These builds have been floating around since pre 1.1 patch when exphyrl came out with it. Agooz than took it and ran with it using Maverick before dropping it before 1.3. Grimoir took it over pre 1.3 and renamed it Terminal Velocity. All-in-all it's been done, and it's a decent spec that doesn't have as strong a burst as 31pt's, but gains a bit more utility. The sad part is in every test we ran for Agooz it's the second highest damage spec for the powertech. It caused me to open a complaint thread to the forum moderates about the overamped Combustible Gas Cylinder.
The idea may have been around for awhile, but what a difference two points can make. Terminal Velocity looks like it still plays pretty much like pure pyro. Extreme Prototype, on the other hand, is more similar to AP (my original opinion was that it was more like Pyro, but I have since changed my mind). Extreme Prototype should, when possible, follow the "12 second Rule". The difference is that our filler abilities working up to those 5 stacks of PFT are Railshots instead of rapid shots/immolate.

As I grow more comfortable with how best to utilize PFT, I find that it is making up more and more of my damage. Outside of Huttball, where my grapple is usually reserved for some sort of defensive play, I find myself using grapple as a way to force even skilled players to stack up for PFT.

The AOE potential of Extreme Prototype is what distinguishes it from Terminal Velocity. The former trades a little bit of single target burst (less railshot crits) for more controlled bursts/AOE damage from PFT.

That said, while I think the name Extreme Prototype is fitting and kinda cool, I think we should continue the PT tradition of weird/outlandish names for the non-traditional specs (Carolina Parakeet/Maverick/NORSE). My suggestion is "The Bushwhacker".

A little bit of the "official" history of Bushwhacking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushwhacker

Any Mechwarrior fans might remember the Bushwhacker battle mech as being the jack of all trades, master of none. This build reflects that ideology:
-Good mobility, but not as mobile as a shield tech's jet charge.
-Good AOE, but Pure AP has a more efficient and 14% stronger PFT.
-Good Single Target Burst, but not as bursty as a Pure Pyro.

The name also lends itself well to how many players react to this build.
Bushwhacked: The realization that your PT isn't a pure pyro. Typically accompanied by hopeless fidgeting while PFT roasts them alive.

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
07.10.2012 , 04:58 PM | #15
You missed the other two threads here they are

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=377751 - Exphyrl was the first to explore the hybrid AP/Pyro. BTW, he is now on my server the Bastion.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555 - Agooz made some changes

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981 - Grimoir essentially redid it for vanguards


They are all essentially the same with some taking PFT and some not taking it. The difference between using PFT and not using PFT is not enough for me to go ooo this is a completely different spec. If you read the above the threads. You will see most left PFT off for mobility and the heat cost.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Raggok's Avatar


Raggok
07.10.2012 , 05:35 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
You missed the other two threads here they are

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=377751 - Exphyrl was the first to explore the hybrid AP/Pyro. BTW, he is now on my server the Bastion.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555 - Agooz made some changes

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981 - Grimoir essentially redid it for vanguards
Just ran across this. There isn't alot of mystery when you are coming up with a build and seperate people will often come up with similar builds independently because certain choices synergize nicely with each other. I was running this build (except I took the chance for a railshot crit over the AoE since the AoE was not as buff way back in the old days and railshot was not nerfed) in the earliest days of the game.

I was a Vanguard so I never posted it here, but I was the first to post this type of build and make movies for it. Very few people gave this build a shot since they underestimated the value of snare, knockback, pull, and root immunity IMO.

Quote:
I wanted to take a moment to revisit the AP/Pyro Build. While the build has been mentioned or brought up well in to the Beta months ago, it seems to be rarely every talked about about here nowadays other than the bit Oozo mentions in his videos. (Which if you read this feel free to input your suggestion since you obviously have been using these builds longer)
I'm the Oozo that Eph is mentioning there in his post about this build, but I long ago stopped playing Vanguard.

edit: My first L50 discussion (although I was playing it sub50) and movie for this build was posted on Jan. 8th. Don't think anyone is going to beat that. :P
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dardack's Avatar


dardack
07.11.2012 , 07:12 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
You missed the other two threads here they are

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=377751 - Exphyrl was the first to explore the hybrid AP/Pyro. BTW, he is now on my server the Bastion.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555 - Agooz made some changes

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981 - Grimoir essentially redid it for vanguards


They are all essentially the same with some taking PFT and some not taking it. The difference between using PFT and not using PFT is not enough for me to go ooo this is a completely different spec. If you read the above the threads. You will see most left PFT off for mobility and the heat cost.
I had tried to point out that at least Agooz had done this awhile ago. TheOpf you mentioned that Agooz's was second to I assume Pyro, can you post the numbers so I can see how close Agooz's is to pure Pyro, only cause I'm lazy right now.

My thing is Agooz didn't take PFT in his notes in that thread. He took the GC and 1 point in ST tree. To me GC isn't worth it for this build, get the 15% crit from 4pc, and get PFT. I was unloading with PFT in Void last night. Was amazing. I kinda am in love with this build (just not sure some of the people i run ranked with will let me run in it for ranked, they kinda crazy when it comes to ranked, and Pyro is the proven heavy hitter and that's what I'm brought for) it gives me the RS of pyro and the PFT/HO of AP that I fell in love with when all we had was HB as a WZ (well not PFT but HO).

Anyways, even tho I MAY be switching my main to pub side (OMG can you say TY for BoL gear so I can mail my alt all WH gear while not even being able to spend ranked comms (not even 35 valor yet)) I'll still be posting here since VG/PT basically the same. I know in my pub guild I keep saying BH terms and have to mouse over the ability so they know *** i'm talking about.
Doofensmirtz lvl 50 PTIn Erebus Drooga's Pleasure Barge. 4 Imps 50. Doofentrooper lvl 50 VG in Goof Troop DPB
Dear BW please have RS/HiB send me to other fleet Nekkid. TY. Also, don't allow 3 sin/shadow 2 sorc/sage teams in HB. That is all.

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
07.11.2012 , 10:15 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by dardack View Post
I had tried to point out that at least Agooz had done this awhile ago. TheOpf you mentioned that Agooz's was second to I assume Pyro, can you post the numbers so I can see how close Agooz's is to pure Pyro, only cause I'm lazy right now.

My thing is Agooz didn't take PFT in his notes in that thread. He took the GC and 1 point in ST tree. To me GC isn't worth it for this build, get the 15% crit from 4pc, and get PFT. I was unloading with PFT in Void last night. Was amazing. I kinda am in love with this build (just not sure some of the people i run ranked with will let me run in it for ranked, they kinda crazy when it comes to ranked, and Pyro is the proven heavy hitter and that's what I'm brought for) it gives me the RS of pyro and the PFT/HO of AP that I fell in love with when all we had was HB as a WZ (well not PFT but HO).

Anyways, even tho I MAY be switching my main to pub side (OMG can you say TY for BoL gear so I can mail my alt all WH gear while not even being able to spend ranked comms (not even 35 valor yet)) I'll still be posting here since VG/PT basically the same. I know in my pub guild I keep saying BH terms and have to mouse over the ability so they know *** i'm talking about.
It's in the AP guide: Here was my breakdown

I was simply stating where all the PT dps was at currently using your stats as a basis and maximum rotation, uptime, and heat management.

Pyro - depending on spec - 1650-1708 dps
Tibetan Candle - 1630-1670
Max AP - 1616-1646
Maverick - 1573
Norse with RB - 1550
Norse without RB - 1515.

So they are all well within 10 percent of each other. I don't see a reason why you couldn't use every single one of the builds and be competitive in terms of pve dps. Remember these dps numbers are spreadsheet calculations, and don't take into account movement times, stuns, avoiding damage spots and other things that can cause your dps to drop.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
07.11.2012 , 10:58 AM | #19
I did notice that the other builds did not pick ppa, pft and ho which are the key talents of this build. They may have few differences in point allocation, but the availability of those 3 talents is what makes it different. On the other hand, I have been using this build in rated wzs and it's performing well objective-wise and dps-wise. Soloing is not a problem that makes ambushing node/door easy. I like it more than pyro because of the utility it has for the team. Pft's snare adds up to that utility with good aoe damage that helps cover up 31 point pyro's burst.
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TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
07.11.2012 , 02:37 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by dijskykiller View Post
I did notice that the other builds did not pick ppa, pft and ho which are the key talents of this build. They may have few differences in point allocation, but the availability of those 3 talents is what makes it different. On the other hand, I have been using this build in rated wzs and it's performing well objective-wise and dps-wise. Soloing is not a problem that makes ambushing node/door easy. I like it more than pyro because of the utility it has for the team. Pft's snare adds up to that utility with good aoe damage that helps cover up 31 point pyro's burst.
Torhead is broken, and so the links in the posts are broken, but by reading you can see that the builds were the same.

If you read the posts most of these were pre 1.2, and even post 1.2 it was noted that the energy cost of PFT and the length of time used might actually cost a dps loss, but that it's entirely possible to run it with a deep PFT. Both Exphyrl and Agooz stated picking up PFT is optional. They just choose to ignore it and grab CGC and HTL with 1 free point.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)