Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Enrage, Enrage, Enrage


Retneprac's Avatar


Retneprac
07.06.2012 , 07:12 AM | #1
Seriously Bioware? Ok, so this is going to sound like I'm whining, well, the truth in fact is, that I am whining. There are some operation bosses in this game that just should not have enrage timers, or maybe not a 200% damage increase, maybe a 50% damage increase, or 75%... Take HM Zorn and Toth for example; The mechanics of this fight alone are enough to make you want to rip your damn hair out. So last night 3 or 4 times we get these guys down to 8% (now i have beat them before, have the codex for HM, etc) and BAM, 200% damage increase, raid wipe... Come on guys, game mechanics are superb, people are almost guaranteed to die at least once in this fight if they screw up, but the sudden 200% damage buff followed shortly by a wipe....

This HAS to be one of the major reasons people are leaving this game. I know I'm fed up with it to the point that I just dont want to do it anymore. It's one thing to rely on 1 or 2 people to do their jobs flawleslly, it's another thing entirely to rely on 7 other people + their internet connection + the Denova lag (I think everybody here knows what i'm talking about on this last one). So seriously, is the 200% damage increase and uber short enrage timer REALLY needed? I've seen several groups wipe before they could even hit an enrage timer... I'd really like to see a developer response on this. Why can't you guys come up with something better than a friggin enrage for every dang fight in this game?

Sorry for the complaining, if you have nothing nice to say, go ahead and follow it up, but think about the logic here before you do so. I love mechanics, but the enrage on every single boss has to go.

dudeyoumadbro's Avatar


dudeyoumadbro
07.06.2012 , 07:29 AM | #2
I have never had a problem with enrage on any HM EC boss, Granted I agree with the Denova Lag, but once you get that group cohesion you never hit enrage timers
The Leto Legacy
Athius - Jedi Guardian Stiffler - Scoundrel Annadorf - Vanguard Ellesif - Jedi Sage
Dalexs - Mercenary Dethex - Marauder Tights - Sniper Dythius - Assassian
The Bastion - PvP

Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
07.06.2012 , 07:32 AM | #3
Without enrage timers you could bring in 5 healers 1 dps and 2 tanks and beat every fight. Without enrage timers, if 2 people die, you would still probably be able to beat most encounters (that had enrage timers) - Which is ridiculous if you think about it, because 25% of your raiders failed. These raids are about close to perfect execution, which many of the top end raiding guilds were clamoring for (which is who HM/NiM are supposedly catering to). If you do not like enrage timers, you can stick to story mode, those are a lot easier to beat.

Retneprac's Avatar


Retneprac
07.06.2012 , 07:52 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Nibbon View Post
Without enrage timers you could bring in 5 healers 1 dps and 2 tanks and beat every fight. Without enrage timers, if 2 people die, you would still probably be able to beat most encounters (that had enrage timers) - Which is ridiculous if you think about it, because 25% of your raiders failed. These raids are about close to perfect execution, which many of the top end raiding guilds were clamoring for (which is who HM/NiM are supposedly catering to). If you do not like enrage timers, you can stick to story mode, those are a lot easier to beat.
Not necessarily true, especially with the mechanics of some fights and the fact that you can only rez one person every 5 minutes. Ever get hit by one of SOA's enraged pylons? insta death. Some groups cant even get to the enrage timer on zorn/toth fight. Yes, your point is valid to a certain degree. But it's not entirely valid.

Utania's Avatar


Utania
07.06.2012 , 07:56 AM | #5
I can understand why the mechanics of enrage exist, so you have a dps requirement.
Could never get my head around the reality of it; "hey guys I was actually only fighting you with one hand, now you've pissed me off long enough I'm no longer going to take it easy on you and use both hands!"

Talorra's Avatar


Talorra
07.06.2012 , 08:11 AM | #6
You get a 200% damage hit when you kill one of the two before the other, and another 200% if you hit the hard enrage timer. So one stack of 200% you will have to deal with every time.

The question is: which of them are you killing first? It matters, a lot. Toth locks into a ground smash phase with 200% increased damage that hits the entire raid. Zorn just... screams at the tank.
M'arik <Intrepid> 16-player Progression The Harbinger
IntrepidOps.com | Live Stream | Recruitment Thread | @Twitter

Retneprac's Avatar


Retneprac
07.06.2012 , 09:03 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Talorra View Post
You get a 200% damage hit when you kill one of the two before the other, and another 200% if you hit the hard enrage timer. So one stack of 200% you will have to deal with every time.

The question is: which of them are you killing first? It matters, a lot. Toth locks into a ground smash phase with 200% increased damage that hits the entire raid. Zorn just... screams at the tank.
We've been killing them at around the same time. Should we burn toth down similar to jarg/sorno? burning jarg down first and just dealing with a soft enrage or what?

Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
07.06.2012 , 09:19 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Utania View Post
I can understand why the mechanics of enrage exist, so you have a dps requirement.
Could never get my head around the reality of it; "hey guys I was actually only fighting you with one hand, now you've pissed me off long enough I'm no longer going to take it easy on you and use both hands!"
That logic is somewhat faulty - if you were SOA - wouldn't you just continuously summon mind traps and throw people around the room and smash them with pylons? Why does he do them in phases? Why not just drop the platform from below everyone's feet and have them fall to death? If you ask these questions, it will never make any sense. Enrage timers are a mechanic, like anything else. As much as we wish all mechanics made logical sense, they really just can't (and shouldn't have to). If you want some kind of justification for enrage timers - think of it as a power meter - it takes a certain amount of time for that power meter to fill before it takes any effect (like Dragon Ball Z if you want to compare it to something).

Quote: Originally Posted by Retneprac View Post
Not necessarily true, especially with the mechanics of some fights and the fact that you can only rez one person every 5 minutes. Ever get hit by one of SOA's enraged pylons? insta death. Some groups cant even get to the enrage timer on zorn/toth fight. Yes, your point is valid to a certain degree. But it's not entirely valid.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but I don't think it necessarily invalidates anything I said. Just because someone can't get to the enrage timer, doesn't change the need for it - it is best to think of it as an additional mechanic that needs to be worked with (as a DPS requirement and as a group makeup check).

Quote: Originally Posted by Retneprac View Post
We've been killing them at around the same time. Should we burn toth down similar to jarg/sorno? burning jarg down first and just dealing with a soft enrage or what?
No - they need to be killed much closer together. The most you want to kill Toth ahead of Zorn by is 4-5% (as opposed to Jarg and Sorno where my raid tends to kill Jarg about 25-30% before Sorno). You can have your tank blow all his cooldowns when Toth dies to stay up against Zorn - but if your tank dies and Zorn does his shout at the raid, everyone dies (50k damage).

Freeborne's Avatar


Freeborne
07.06.2012 , 09:35 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Retneprac View Post

This HAS to be one of the major reasons people are leaving this game.
I seriously doubt that.

I having nothing against having Enrage Timers in the game, or having them on every boss.

That being said, I do think that EC Hard Mode enrage timers and perhaps Lost Island HM enrage timers on the first boss are too finely tuned.

When your talents aren't working correctly (Deadly Cannon, anyone?) it means the metrics used to calculate the DPS required for the fight will be off. Then if you also factor in overall combat changes like the armor debuff no longer stacking...

It forces you to bring specific classes/not to many of a specific class.

In short, you stop bringing the player and start bringing the character.


So my view is: Enrage Timers, Yes. Enrage Timers without some breathing space for the inevitable bugs/nerfs that change our DPS: No.


Nothing sucks more than failing to down a boss due to an enrage that you were able to down the week before, but since your class was nerfed to balance PvP, your PvE got !@#$ed with.
The Ebon Hawk: 50 Commando, Shep'ard. 50 Guardian, Asha'man
Want a global LFG channel? Type "/cjoin LFG" on your server and get others to do the same!

Talorra's Avatar


Talorra
07.06.2012 , 10:01 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Retneprac View Post
We've been killing them at around the same time. Should we burn toth down similar to jarg/sorno? burning jarg down first and just dealing with a soft enrage or what?
No, like Nibbon above pointed out they need to be closer. We've pulled off 8%-10%% on Zorn after killing Toth, but it is sketchy at best. 4%-5% is a nice range, as long as you drop Toth first.
M'arik <Intrepid> 16-player Progression The Harbinger
IntrepidOps.com | Live Stream | Recruitment Thread | @Twitter