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Is the Sith philosophy right


cool-dude's Avatar


cool-dude
07.06.2012 , 01:44 AM | #1
Put all the homicidal craziness aside, and think about the Philosophy for a second. It's probably based off of a real philosophical teaching anyway. Does denying your emotions make you weak?
"Sarcasm is strong in this one"

Malrus's Avatar


Malrus
07.06.2012 , 02:08 AM | #2
I don't think there really is a right or wrong side.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
07.06.2012 , 02:44 AM | #3
If you're talking about the philosophy of the Sith Code vs. the Jedi Code, then here's my take on them:

The Jedi Code, when misinterpreted by the Jedi Councils throughout Galactic History, seems to point to ALL Jedi being able to suppress their emotions. Unfortunately, that is an unnatural state in humans. We need our emotions to survive. We need our emotions to pull us through in tough times. Life is not all sunshine and flowers. The Jedi are afraid of emotions, it seems. Even positive ones.

The Sith Code, meanwhile, is far more realistic in how the Universe actually works. Life is struggle. You must constantly persevere and prove yourself. To overcome your enemies. To overcome your own weaknesses. To use your emotions instead of locking them away as the Jedi would. The ultimate goal is Freedom.

The Jedi spend all their lives in a futile struggle to suppress their emotions. The Jedi Code is worded in such a way that it's an Absolute. The Original Code was worded in a way that would allow for relationships and love. But even romantic love is forbidden to the Jedi. As stupid as that sounds, they severely restrict or even ban marriage between Jedi.

The Sith use and master their emotions without suppressing them. The really powerful are the ones who have mastered themselves completely, and are truly free in the Force.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

grandmthethird's Avatar


grandmthethird
07.06.2012 , 05:10 AM | #4
the way i see it, if the sith code is a real world philosophy, its probably from some long dead culture, like roman or spartan maybe. in todays society we do not kill off the weak, we protect them. and we don't kill our boss for their job. we set up organizations to keep the peace and have charity's set up to help with worls plites, none of this would happen under the sith code

no, if there was a culture like the siths then they are long dead, and there is probably a very good reason for this

as for the jedi, i think its wrong to say they shut off their emotions. they still have emotions, they just learn to control them. even for us in the real world, its better to make a rational, informed decision, rather than a knee jerked emotional response. that doesn't mean we should be come emotion-less droids, just that we should use our head when we need to think about something.

being able to control your emotion is not the same thing as abandoning it, in fact to abandon your emotion would show you have no control over it. and i think ppl have taken this way off to the extreme, a jedi should just be master of emotion, knowing how to do something while ieeping their emotions in check. completely different to startrek idea of a volcan.
"Hope has a vicious enemy called fate"

DarthCalo's Avatar


DarthCalo
07.06.2012 , 06:15 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Malrus View Post
I don't think there really is a right or wrong side.
Ditto.
It's more about perspectives. IMO

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
07.06.2012 , 06:58 AM | #6
The philosophy of the Sith Code is truely and utterly wrong.

Okay, that's an exaggeration. But here's my in depth analysis.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Throughout history, there have been times of peace and times of war. It is probably not possible to avoid war completely, but temporary peace is possible. And more than that it is possible to life in peace inside your country. True, sometimes it is peace because of superior firepower. But peace nontheless.

Maybe this refers to inner peace. I'm truely sorry for everyone who has never experienced inner peace. A situation where you are just happy/content with life as it is. There is more to life than passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Everyone who has gained strenght in any field knows that passion is only a small part of it. Discipline and practice are far more importent. Let's say you want to gain strenght in the most physical sense, because your passion drives you to this. So you go to the gym. After some time, your passion will wear off, but if you still want to gain strength, you have to keep training.

I'd say to "gain strength" in whatever area, 20% is talent, 20% is passion and 60% is training.

Through strength, I gain power.

You normally gain power through manipulation. No matter if you have to manipulate voters or the nobles who should serve you in theory.

Yes, in some situations strength (=competence) will bring you power and in others bloodlines will. But if you are on a quest for power like a Sith, manipulation is the way you should go.

Through power, I gain victory.

In a military sense this is kind of true. Military might will bring you victory if you use it wisely. In politics it's also true sometimes. But no matter what, you have to be smart. An idiot may have a lot of power, but it won't secure his victory if his opponent is a genius.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

This is kinda true. You know, for independence wars and stuff.

But if you win an election, you are normally less free afterwards. You have responsibilities and people will have expectations for you.
And if you win a war, in most cases it doesn't break your chains, but only puts chains on your enemy.

The Force will set me free.

That's a religious statement. Transferring ot to the real world would be difficult, since I don't believe in the Force. Translating it as "God will set me free" seems to change it's meaning completely. (And it won't be allowed to discuss this here.) So I'll just keep it out of this.


The Sith code (even in Star Wars) makes the most sense if you interpret it as a historical document. It was written by former Jedi who wanted to break free from what they experienced as oppression by the Jedi order. The Sith Code describes their struggle, plans and hopes.

The philosophy of most Sith in the TOR era seems to be not much more than: Gain power in every way possible, no matter the cost.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Malrus's Avatar


Malrus
07.06.2012 , 07:19 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
The Force will set me free.

That's a religious statement. Transferring ot to the real world would be difficult, since I don't believe in the Force. Translating it as "God will set me free" seems to change it's meaning completely. (And it won't be allowed to discuss this here.) So I'll just keep it out of this.
Yea, one of the very few things that has annoyed me in star wars is the force being like a....well lets just say the G word and how all the force users (especially jedi) believe that 'the force' guides them and all that sort of stuff. (like jeez Yoda I thought you were wise). I just had to say it

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
07.06.2012 , 07:54 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Malrus View Post
Yea, one of the very few things that has annoyed me in star wars is the force being like a....well lets just say the G word and how all the force users (especially jedi) believe that 'the force' guides them and all that sort of stuff. (like jeez Yoda I thought you were wise). I just had to say it
Well, Star Wars does leave enough room for different interpretations of the Force. It can be everything from a passive energy field that mainly reacts to life up to one (or two) intelligent beings. And there are different interpretations of the Force in the Star Wars universe. Different Force religions and philosophies.

So I say: If the Jedi say the Force guids and has a will, it is what they believe about the Force. It might be true, but it might also be false.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

grandmthethird's Avatar


grandmthethird
07.06.2012 , 08:00 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
The philosophy of the Sith Code is truely and utterly wrong.

Okay, that's an exaggeration. But here's my in depth analysis.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Throughout history, there have been times of peace and times of war. It is probably not possible to avoid war completely, but temporary peace is possible. And more than that it is possible to life in peace inside your country. True, sometimes it is peace because of superior firepower. But peace nontheless.

Maybe this refers to inner peace. I'm truely sorry for everyone who has never experienced inner peace. A situation where you are just happy/content with life as it is. There is more to life than passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Everyone who has gained strenght in any field knows that passion is only a small part of it. Discipline and practice are far more importent. Let's say you want to gain strenght in the most physical sense, because your passion drives you to this. So you go to the gym. After some time, your passion will wear off, but if you still want to gain strength, you have to keep training.

I'd say to "gain strength" in whatever area, 20% is talent, 20% is passion and 60% is training.

Through strength, I gain power.

You normally gain power through manipulation. No matter if you have to manipulate voters or the nobles who should serve you in theory.

Yes, in some situations strength (=competence) will bring you power and in others bloodlines will. But if you are on a quest for power like a Sith, manipulation is the way you should go.

Through power, I gain victory.

In a military sense this is kind of true. Military might will bring you victory if you use it wisely. In politics it's also true sometimes. But no matter what, you have to be smart. An idiot may have a lot of power, but it won't secure his victory if his opponent is a genius.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

This is kinda true. You know, for independence wars and stuff.

But if you win an election, you are normally less free afterwards. You have responsibilities and people will have expectations for you.
And if you win a war, in most cases it doesn't break your chains, but only puts chains on your enemy.

The Force will set me free.

That's a religious statement. Transferring ot to the real world would be difficult, since I don't believe in the Force. Translating it as "God will set me free" seems to change it's meaning completely. (And it won't be allowed to discuss this here.) So I'll just keep it out of this.


The Sith code (even in Star Wars) makes the most sense if you interpret it as a historical document. It was written by former Jedi who wanted to break free from what they experienced as oppression by the Jedi order. The Sith Code describes their struggle, plans and hopes.

The philosophy of most Sith in the TOR era seems to be not much more than: Gain power in every way possible, no matter the cost.
so basically the sith code would translate as

peace is a lie, there is only passion - start a fight and get angry
through passion, i gain strength - my anger makes me strong
through strength, i gain victory - if i'm strong i can crush my enemy's
though victory my chains are broken - only when my enemy's are gone, can i stop fighting
the force will set me free - god is on my side

that's the way i read it, and it kinda contradicts itself. the first line basically says they need war, but the fourth line says when all the enemy's are dead they can stop fighting, but if this happens they will be at peace, and peace is a lie so the code is broken maybe it means when all external enemy's are gone they will finish off each other till there is only one sith left. that sounds like the sort of culture that will destroy its self so the sith code is not a very good way to live

the sith code may work for a barbaric non-civilized culture. but considering the sith are sposed to be quite an intelligent enlightened race, it does seem strange they use such an archaic system to live by. but anyway it works well with the whole good v evil thing but it really doesn't fit into modern life.

*edit* didn't really mean to quote there, i pressed quote instead of reply and didn't really notice nvm, your was such a great post it deserves another showing
"Hope has a vicious enemy called fate"

Forgon's Avatar


Forgon
07.06.2012 , 08:00 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
Well, Star Wars does leave enough room for different interpretations of the Force. It can be everything from a passive energy field that mainly reacts to life up to one (or two) intelligent beings. And there are different interpretations of the Force in the Star Wars universe. Different Force religions and philosophies.

So I say: If the Jedi say the Force guids and has a will, it is what they believe about the Force. It might be true, but it might also be false.
GL (aka word of God) has spoken that the Jedi philosophy and code in the movies is the closest to the reality of the Force and most accurate. Its no debate, no matter how much people argue.
Quote: Originally Posted by milmo View Post
No, we need to rant on how this game is exactly like WoW and when we learn it's not like WoW we go into a blood rage. We must aim to be inconsistent, incoherent and contradictory.