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The Stagnation of MMO industry/genre and why

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The Stagnation of MMO industry/genre and why

twinionx's Avatar


twinionx
07.04.2012 , 09:33 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaisernick View Post
i would like to add that i think you missed one IMO
class servers
not sure when this started but the first mmo i remember playingwith it in was wow and i feel that separating servers by pvp pve and rp can be a bad idea.

ive played on pvp servers and battles in those feel epic and real players will use tactics plan out battles and defenders will counter (u get the picture)

RP server have a brilliant community they almost always help others can talk about lore of the game and can make u feel welcome.

PVE servers seem to be in the middle but don’t get either right.

But the problem here isnt just design it the players, when i played SWG the servers had no diction there was no rp or pvp servers if u wanted to pvp u ran around flagged if you wanted to rp you would click a button and a little rp would be next to your name, if you wanted to simply quest u could and people didnt mock each other for their choices (which sadly pvp playesr will mock rp players) .

the problem is many people like to do all 3 of these things sometimes i like to simply quest, other times i will pvp and sometimes i want to sit back and just RP. The problem is that playes who want to try it all cant RP servers tend to have poor pvp and you are mocked and heckled in PVE and PVP servers for trying to RP.
I didn't mention this because that to me is a derivative problem from sharding. Sharding is still the root evil. Without sharding, there is no need to split into all the various server type.

There is no reason, on the same world, not to have say a PvE continent/planet and s PvP continent/planet,

Baphomet_x's Avatar


Baphomet_x
07.04.2012 , 09:35 PM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by twinionx View Post
I didn't mention this because that to me is a derivative problem from sharding. Sharding is still the root evil. Without sharding, there is no need to split into all the various server type.

There is no reason, on the same world, not to have say a PvE continent/planet and s PvP continent/planet,
you do realize this game is strictly based off of lore right?and that it would be unfeasible to have things restricted to one planet?one of the things that made the original star wars movie famous was the planets,the aliens,and the cool battles...it hadnt really been done before

twinionx's Avatar


twinionx
07.04.2012 , 09:36 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Jenzali View Post
It's not just the MMO genre that's stagnating.

AAA gaming in general is stagnating because people continue to buy the same thing year after year. It's staying the same because that's what makes the most profits.

The unfortunate truth is that innovative games at most have a niche fan-base and even if it does attract a larger crowd, they always end up drifting back to their familiar things. Their WoW, Call of Duty, The Sims, and NHL/FIFA year after year.

The most successful in business are usually those that copy something else and improve upon it.

I think SWTOR did right in this regard. It plays in a very familiar style and is based on arguably the best possible IP (Star Wars) for an MMORPG or RPG. Sure, it "stole" the dialogue system from Mass Effect, the end-game from WoW, and the story from KOTOR, but put it all together and the players feel pretty invested in their characters even if each of those elements alone don't compare to their counterparts. I'm here because I loved WoW, BioWare RPGs, and Star Wars.

SWTOR has its fair share of innovation that most people seem to forget. While some aspects feel outdated, others were done outstandingly such as:

- Huttball. WoW's PvP can't hold a candle to how exciting and dynamic the gameplay is, even despite class balance issues which inevitably exist in every game. People seem to forget that WoW PvP is entirely two dimensional and you can't even leap/pull/push/charge to higher levels or across pits and fences.
- Energy/ammo/heat resource, the first MMO to ever use something other than a nearly limitless expendable pool (mana). The fact that this is available to healers makes it even more interesting.
- The class design - only the Guardian/Juggernaut and Sage/Sorceror are really reminiscent of traditional MMOs. The others put a nice new twist on them. Healers and tanks that stealth? "Ranged" tanks? Grapples, pulls, and pushes. Cover (this is another big one). I also like the idea of not having an auto-attack. If you've played games with auto-attacks you know there's always those people who are obviously occupied with something else and are not pulling their weight.
- Companions - this is a huge one. Although it's disappointing they aren't used too much at max level other than for dailies, it makes leveling up solo orders of magnitude funner than the old "auto-attack, alt-tab out, loot, rinse and repeat". It's finally viable (if a bit slower) to level from 10 to 50 as a pure healer or pure tank regardless of whether you like flashpoints, PvP, heroics, or questing.
- Story - don't really need to say anything about this. Even the people who hate SWTOR agree that it had the best leveling up experience, at least the first time. The only opinion I have to add is that I wish that the side-quests didn't consume so many resources and voice acting time, and that instead they focused more on the class storylines and the planetary arc.
I agree Huttball is an innovation in the sense that it allows same factions to fight one another in a reasonable way.

The different energy system already exist in WAR previously. No doubt some WAR designers influenced SWTOR.

Story and Companions are carried over from Single player games. And they are not very well implemented in MMO setting at that.

Galossj's Avatar


Galossj
07.04.2012 , 09:38 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Baphomet_x View Post
nope...there all dead without a cleric...
Eight Omega Squad

Kosef

Baphomet_x's Avatar


Baphomet_x
07.04.2012 , 09:41 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by twinionx View Post
I agree Huttball is an innovation in the sense that it allows same factions to fight one another in a reasonable way.

The different energy system already exist in WAR previously. No doubt some WAR designers influenced SWTOR.

Story and Companions are carried over from Single player games. And they are not very well implemented in MMO setting at that.
actually,no,war had nothing to do with this...the companions carry over nicely with the attached storyline....your problem is your thinking about it like someone that has a life...

all of the stuff in this game is drawn from the lore..obviously you cant have bounty hunter with a force meter,so it makes sense to call it heat....and with the imperial agent,since the imperial agent is more methodical and less aggresive,it makes sense to call it energy

twinionx's Avatar


twinionx
07.04.2012 , 10:10 PM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Baphomet_x View Post
because,if you did that it would be a 3d avatar chatbox...basically,just another version of facebook

and there are alot of people who dont want this game turning into facebook
Let me play the devil's advocate here.

What's wrong with it being a 3D facebook?

If your girlfriend wants to become the cook while chatting away the time with her girlfriends while you are away slaying dragons, what's wrong with that?

If it means now we have more than 10 million players, so what? The developer becomes more profitable and can make more content or add to the game.

It's a win for all of us.

Also, that girl that wants to play a cook? That's call role-playing.

twinionx's Avatar


twinionx
07.04.2012 , 10:11 PM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Lt_Latency View Post
Leveling gets the average player to play the game more.

The is a reason every single game including FPS games now involve some sort of level process.
And what happens when you reached the max level?

Now do you see the design flaw of leveling in an MMO?

twinionx's Avatar


twinionx
07.04.2012 , 10:16 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by Tahana View Post
I just wish they had used an updated engine.. I couldn't handle it. While I like the premise of the game and their concept the overall 'no levels' is actually just a play on words. You still have to level per se in that you have to get the additional abilities. If it truly was a no level game you could select them all from the wheel in the beginning.
My take on "no leveling" is very simple. It relies on the following litmus test.

1. Can I go to any zones/dungeons/warzones at any level and have meaningful challenging gameplay?
2. Can I party with players of any experience (i.e. time spending playing the game) any time?
3. Can I fight any player and have reasonable chance to win as long as I utilise good tactics and skills? And not because of how many spells or skills I have?

twinionx's Avatar


twinionx
07.04.2012 , 10:19 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Tahana View Post
I wonder how much hardware technology is part of this limitation.
I do admit this could be the main reason.

I also think that if they don't START to think about this, on one is going to solve this.

The reason why we can fly now is because of so many people constantly attacking the problem of flight until the Wright Brothers found the solution.

I don't think we are able to fly if people has the feeling that "if we're meant to fly, we would have wings by now".

The same goes for single-shard technology.

Players must want it.

Developers must want to make it.

The rest is just an engineering problem to be solved.

Baphomet_x's Avatar


Baphomet_x
07.04.2012 , 10:20 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by twinionx View Post
Let me play the devil's advocate here.

What's wrong with it being a 3D facebook?

If your girlfriend wants to become the cook while chatting away the time with her girlfriends while you are away slaying dragons, what's wrong with that?

If it means now we have more than 10 million players, so what? The developer becomes more profitable and can make more content or add to the game.

It's a win for all of us.

Also, that girl that wants to play a cook? That's call role-playing.

because...the nature of human existence is to seek knowledge...capitalizing on a lack of knowledge is wrong

if a person wanted to be a cook in a star wars game,and do nothing else,thats rather awkward....i beleive children have a habit of playing games like that.....yet very rarely does any adult "play" cook like children do,cause there i no point

and facebook basically capitalizes on people wanting to abandon knowledge...ironically enough...i beleive you can see what i mean about "3d facebook" and capitlizing on lack of knowledge is wrong,on a disney film called wall-e...what did the people on the spaceship do?nothing,they just talked all day...and look what happened to not only them,but the earth itself