Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Lost Island observation


Aetou's Avatar


Aetou
07.02.2012 , 03:47 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by AhsokaTanorules View Post
Here is a random gripe about a boss that dead ended my group the on time I went. The Savrap sample. We quickly figured out how to deal with his stomp and to click the consoles when he jumps up. However the spit was doing like monster damage with impunity.

According to what I hear the group has to spread out to avoid splash damage. Each of us were at a separate console and from what I could see the ehaler was in the middle but we were all still taking epic damage the healer couldn't heal us through and getting destroyed. Either the healer was not very well geared or maybe the recert 1.3 patch did something to the boss's spit to make it uber epic. My thoughts at the time was like, either lessen the spit damage or shorten the casting time of console.
That phase is supposed to be a healing check - as long as your healer has decent gear they should be able to clear it fine. I've done it 3 times since 1.3, twice on my healer and once on my dps, and neither had issues. It does make it easier if you have a sage or commando as one of your dps but that isn't necessary at all.

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
07.02.2012 , 04:05 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by NoxiousAlby View Post
Yes casuals can get Black hole gear MK 1...........................are you seriously going to tell me that it's on par with the MK 2 & 3 Black Hole gear we can get? not to mention campiagn gear. I read the QQ about BH badges being readily accessible and laughed, no matter how hard or long casuals try to gear themselves their gear will always be inferior as the game currently stands.
It never ceases to amaze me how little understanding people have of gearing in this game. I've lost count of the number of posts I've made explaining this in detail, but I'm not going to bother at this point. Hint: if you think Campaign and BH MK2+ gear is universally better than vendor BH gear... you have a lot to learn. Fact of the matter is that 90% - more or less - of BiS gear for any class can be acquired without ever stepping foot in a raid.

As for the rest of the discussion, let's just drop it. It's clear that no one will convince you of the ridiculousness of your "raider"/"non-raider" divide, and I suspect that if you're so selfish and/or stubborn that you can't begrudge one single 4-man instance that requires players to be awake, rationality isn't your strong suit at any rate.

Kitzinger's Avatar


Kitzinger
07.02.2012 , 04:27 AM | #43
I actually really like LI (hm). Yeah, it's difficult but when you are done you are a much better player because of it. Interrupts are hardly needed or used before LI but you can't get through the Flash Point without putting them to good use and then you are so used to using them that you begin to use them in every instance. Cleanse, Purge, etc. are also valuable and separates the healers who can pass LI and those who can't. Had two healers in LI with both in Rakata and a well geared DPS and I kept dying on the droid... I called it and grabbed a healer who was much less geared and two DPS and we ran through it with no deaths.
I do think it should offer better gear (different gear), I would like to see the end boss have another mechanic added (too predictable), and the invisible incinerate fixed (only happens at start of fight).
My suggestion is to bind your fast Interrupt to the "F" key. If you heal then make sure you have your "cleanse" power handy.
LI is a team effort. Some teams just don't interact that well together and others interact as one being.

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
07.02.2012 , 04:44 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
What i dont get is people talk so much about gear checks and things of that nature, and how gear makes or breaks flash points, but people never talked about how correctly itemized columi is better then non re-itemized rakata, that gear for the most part means nothing if a person doesnt take the time to go through every piece of it and min/max it.
No arguement from me here, both Rakata & Black hole gear is poorly itemized in terms of stats, Your right in saying that modifications need to be made to min/max your dps.

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
07.02.2012 , 04:49 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how little understanding people have of gearing in this game. I've lost count of the number of posts I've made explaining this in detail, but I'm not going to bother at this point. Hint: if you think Campaign and BH MK2+ gear is universally better than vendor BH gear... you have a lot to learn. Fact of the matter is that 90% - more or less - of BiS gear for any class can be acquired without ever stepping foot in a raid.
BIS without stepping foot in a raid? for most players with limited credits?.................next you'll be telling me how you detailed evidence that pigs can fly.

Quote:
As for the rest of the discussion, let's just drop it. It's clear that no one will convince you of the ridiculousness of your "raider"/"non-raider" divide, and I suspect that if you're so selfish and/or stubborn that you can't begrudge one single 4-man instance that requires players to be awake, rationality isn't your strong suit at any rate.
What you consider ridiculous I see as necessary for a healthy game, Cataclysm seems more your style of MMO and we all know how that turned out for Blizzard. Rationality is something I have in abundance hence my wish for raiders and casuals alike to receive enjoyment of this game, your self inflated ego and attitude of entitlement however is something I thankfully dont have.

For the record i'm not begrudging anyone anything unlike yourself, I run HM Ops. I also clear HM LI once a week rotating guildies to give everyone the chance in our guild to obtain the blue speeder. I think that FP regardless of their tier should be achieveable by all causual players, if i'm in the mood for a challenge i'll invite guild members who dont normaly run HM EC to run it with me. Now compare your attitude to mine and see which of us is selfish & stubborn.

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
07.02.2012 , 05:12 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by NoxiousAlby View Post
BIS without stepping foot in a raid? for most players with limited credits?.................next you'll be telling me how you detailed evidence that pigs can fly.
In your defence, there's a lot of players who don't understand gearing in this game (despite it not being very complex). I'd recommend you spend a little time getting to grips with it, rather than continuing to embarrass yourself further.

Quote:
What you consider ridiculous I see as necessary for a healthy game, Cataclysm seems more your style of MMO and we all know how that turned out for Blizzard. Rationality is something I have in abundance hence my wish for raiders and casuals alike to receive enjoyment of this game, your self inflated ego and attitude of entitlement however is something I thankfully dont have.
Holy crap. It's really quite amazing.

There's ten flashpoints for "casuals" and one flashpoint with a degree of challenge. My desire to preserve that lone flashpoint makes me "entitled" (the most abused word on the internet next to "irony" these days). This is despite my constant and repeated assertions that I'm happy for 95% of the game to remain casual friendly.

Quote:
For the record i'm not begrudging anyone anything unlike yourself, I run HM Ops. I also clear HM LI once a week rotating guildies to give everyone the chance in our guild to obtain the blue speeder. I think that FP regardless of their tier should be achieveable by all causual players, if i'm in the mood for a challenge i'll invite guild members who dont normaly run HM EC to run it with me. Now compare your attitude to mine and see which of us is selfish & stubborn.
Yes, you. You're begrudging players who enjoy content that requires their attention the only 4-man instance they have in the game.

Your distinctions are nonsensical. Many, many "casual" players raid. Many "hardcore raiders" enjoy smaller group content. If Bioware's smart they'll continue to provide a range of content to appeal to different elements of their audience. If they can't see the forest for the trees, they'll start drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and alienate more players.

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
07.02.2012 , 05:19 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by vesani View Post
Campaign isn't "the bomb" at all, in fact, in order to get BiS gear, you need to mix Campaign with BH. It's total rubbish how BiS gear can be obtained by queuing for these face-roll flashpoints every day just because the casual community doesn't want to put the time and effort in to progress through Ops.
Dont kid yourself.............
You would you rather modify Rakata gear to keep the set bonus or modify Campaign gear for the set bonus?
Thankyou.......Campaign gear is the bomb, the fact that it needs to be modified because the stats arent always suited to the class (both Rakata & Campaign) is a problem not of our doing.
Me personaly I swap modifications around from BH MK 2 &3 into my Campaign gear, last time I checked you cant be BIS just from acquiring BH gear MK 1 so stop making false assumptions that anyone can be BIS just from acquiring BH MK 1 gear.

Quote:
I sincerely hope EC HM (or LI HM) will never be nerfed, since they were (and still are for many) a good challenge. While content should still be accessible to "those who can't" (in other words, casuals), there is always Story Mode which is perfectly accessible.
I dont see this happening as the squeeky wheel makes the most noise, that being us raiders who QQ louder and more frequently than the majority of causuals who never come onto the forums.

Quote:
On topic, the Flashpoint is challenging, I don't see how this is a problem, I've done LI HM in many PuG groups with no voice communication, mediocre gear and making a few mistakes with boss strategies, it just requires a brain and a bit of teamwork unlike the other HM FP's which can be practically carried by one well geared DPS. If LI was as easy as say, Taral V, I'm sure many more people would have complained about how the content is easy than they are now with regards to how "hard" it is.
Last time I checked the enrage timers on bosses dont allow players to be carried and you certainly make it sound easier than most players have encountered.

Quote:
I'm not elitist in any way, I only worry for the future of this game if all the content was homogenized in difficulty and became more of a story experience as the casual players are seemingly demanding.
You most certainly are elitist, I draw your attention to your paragraph 2. We are a minority in RPGMMO's these days a fact that many raiders seem to ignore. Why shouldnt the majority of the playerbase be demanding? Given that all end game content is created to suit out needs, that BIS is achievable only at our level.
It's the same rubbish time and time again in every MMO that caters to us, when the majhority of players have difficulty or disagree with how we perceive the game should be we jump up and down like petulent children telling them to L2P.
We have our raids and BW now understands the level of difficulty that raiders are looking for, let the non raiding community have their 4 mans. Unless like Aurojiin you want it all

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
07.02.2012 , 05:32 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
In your defence, there's a lot of players who don't understand gearing in this game (despite it not being very complex). I'd recommend you spend a little time getting to grips with it, rather than continuing to embarrass yourself further.
Dont flatter yourself, the only thing thats been embarrassing in this conversation has been your selfish entitled attitude.

Quote:
Holy crap. It's really quite amazing.

There's ten flashpoints for "casuals" and one flashpoint with a degree of challenge. My desire to preserve that lone flashpoint makes me "entitled" (the most abused word on the internet next to "irony" these days). This is despite my constant and repeated assertions that I'm happy for 95% of the game to remain casual friendly.
Fine then add the Rakata chest and blue speeder to Kaon Under Seige, because thats why many casuals want to run HM LI otherwise make it achievable for 95% of players. As i've said before I dont care but I certainly hear plenty of players who are dissillusioned with it.

Quote:
Yes, you. You're begrudging players who enjoy content that requires their attention the only 4-man instance they have in the game.
Have you ever experienced a flashpoint or instance that couldnt be pugged with any level of success? I havent, not through vanilla, TBC, Wotlk or Cata and yet HM LI is a pug breaker. These players who post that they regularly pug HM LI are either very lucky or just plain kidding themselves. The mechanics are unforgiving and the enrage timers on the bosses require minimum dps output. Is this achievable by the average player?

Quote:
Your distinctions are nonsensical. Many, many "casual" players raid. Many "hardcore raiders" enjoy smaller group content. If Bioware's smart they'll continue to provide a range of content to appeal to different elements of their audience. If they can't see the forest for the trees, they'll start drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and alienate more players.
As I said previously why on earth would you add content that the majority of players cant complete and offer rewards that everyone of the players participating in the 95% (rubbish percentage) of easier content would want. And yet for the majority of players running HM LI nothing drops in that flashpoint that is of any use.

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
07.02.2012 , 05:34 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by NoxiousAlby View Post
Dont kid yourself.............
You would you rather modify Rakata gear to keep the set bonus or modify Campaign gear for the set bonus?
Thankyou.......Campaign gear is the bomb, the fact that it needs to be modified because the stats arent always suited to the class (both Rakata & Campaign) is a problem not of our doing.
Me personaly I swap modifications around from BH MK 2 &3 into my Campaign gear, last time I checked you cant be BIS just from acquiring BH gear MK 1 so stop making false assumptions that anyone can be BIS just from acquiring BH MK 1 gear
Dear Lord, I actually have to break this down.

BH MK-1 through 3 all have 61 mods in them. They just have different itemisations; the tiers have the same stat budgets.

Campaign also has 61 armourings/mods/enhancements; it's not inherently superior to BH MK-1 in any way. For any piece of moddable gear that you can purchase from the vendor (head, gloves, chest, pants, boots), you can achieve BiS by simply dismantling the appropriate pieces of BH gear and using tier 1 shells (if you have a set bonus worth preserving; for some ACs this doesn't even matter).

Let's take my main (Sage healer) as a case study. There's only three things that have to be acquired from raiding:

1. The BIS earpiece would theoretically be a BH drop. i've never heard of anyone getting it on any server, so in practice everyone just uses the Rakata earpiece (daily comms).
2. You need unlocked armourings for bracers/belt. These can be found on the GTN occasionally.
3. Mainhand 61 hilt; there's no BH mainhand.

Campaign obviously offers the benefit of preserving set bonuses with your choice of appearance although it's important to note that two Campaign pieces have Force Wielder armouring; ergo they're actually not BiS and you will need to use BH armourings and at least one tier 1 shell to preserve your 4-piece bonus.

So, practically speaking, you can achieve complete BiS for my main's class with the exception of the mainhand hilt. The story is pretty much the same for everyone (with class-specific variations such as those with moddable offhands etc).

Quote:
Have you ever experienced a flashpoint or instance that couldnt be pugged with any level of success?
I've successfully pugged LI multiple times. It's not a pug breaker, it's a bad-player-breaker.

Quote:
As I said previously why on earth would you add content that the majority of players cant complete and offer rewards that everyone of the players participating in the 95% (rubbish percentage) of easier content would want. And yet for the majority of players running HM LI nothing drops in that flashpoint that is of any use.
Well, let's drop HM EC then, because the majority of players can't complete that. If hardcore players are such a pointless minority it would seem better to give them a few challenging flashpoints than entire raids, but I digress.

I'd like you to point me to where I said the loot drops in HM LI were appropriately tuned. I'm advocating preserving the flashpoint's degree of challenge, nothing more. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Nolenthar's Avatar


Nolenthar
07.02.2012 , 05:41 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by NoxiousAlby View Post
I think that FP regardless of their tier should be achieveable by all causual players,
You're clearly mistaking casual players for bad players. As others said before, the only thing required in LI is actually to use all the tools the game gave you (interrupt, cleansing, etc) which others FP don't force you to. If you want my opinion, the problem doesn't rely on LI, it relies in overnerfed content which never encouraged players to learn to use their ability, or to work as a team. Casual players can and will clear LI HM without any problems.
Kao'celaar Ildorii, Juyo Master, Mystical Awakening