Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Lost Island observation


Farbrorolle's Avatar


Farbrorolle
07.02.2012 , 01:24 AM | #31
Lots of talk about casual players here, well I am a casual player. If you ask me I think the best way to design a mmo is to make the good gear available in 2 ways: Hard content, or very slowly through easy content. So what have Bio done? They have made LI and EC hard to do and drop the good stuff and they have made Tier 1 FP and Ops easier to do and drop Black Hole comms (if you use the random group finder). I think that looks just about right to me. Since I have a vested interrest I checked and it will take me 7 days on the random finder to buy a Black Hole headpiece. Looks about right to me am I wrong?

XhenD's Avatar


XhenD
07.02.2012 , 01:33 AM | #32
I think Lost Island HM has the exact level of difficulty, that beating it requires both decent gear and skills from all the players, and yet it's not too hard that it becomes an "elites only" Flashpoint.

Speaking from experience as a tank, the first time I encountered the first boss, I was slightly undergeared (missing 2 Columi pieces), and I totally panicked. But after a couple of runs (5), we picked up the rhythm, and we finally beat the boss. The process might be long and painful, but in the end it was fun and rewarding, because it required more teamwork than before, and what's MMO without teamwork?

Now after having beaten LI HM a couple of times, it's still fun, because even now I have better gear, you still need the concentration and the cooperation from the players in order to succeed. You can allow yourself one or two mistakes, which is great, but screwing up a bit too much will still cost you, even if the whole team is on Rakata gear. For me it's the only challenging Flashpoint in the game, and no, I do not want Bioware to nerf it, because then the whole game will be a joke, if every content in every mode can be lead by a undergeared/skilled tank who has one of his eyes closed during Boss fight.

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
07.02.2012 , 01:35 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
That's just beyond ridiculous. You're basically drawing up these arbitrary rules whereby serious players should only be doing 8-man or above content, and attaching a minimum duration to it.

First, I don't always have another seven players handy to form a raid group. Second, and more importantly, I like smaller group content. Group interaction is more personal, it's much less prone to stoppage, and I just like the combat dynamics. Furthermore, am I to believe that I'm only allowed to enjoy semi-challenging content if I can devote two to four hours at a time? I'm just not allowed to get three friends and have fun playing something shorter? I'm not going to say what I think of that proposition, because I'd start violating the code of conduct around here, but rest assured that I find your nonsensical assertions borderline offensive.
Well if you find common sense offensive....then bad luck
If you prefer 4 man content over 8 man content but want the same raid style mechanics then might I suggest you petition BW to introduce 4 man Ops. because you would fall into the extreme minority of players capable of clearing difficult content but prefering 4 man content. I also fail to see how pleasing players such as yourself is good for the game when content to please you will exclude the greater majority casual players.

Quote:
I'd also like to know where story EV and KP fit in your little collection of rules, seeing as they clearly have little relevance for serious players, and many casuals are (gasp) raiding in these instances.
It's elementary my dear Watson, any raider worth their grain of salt geared their character in Columi by running SM EV & KP. From there we ventured into HM EV & KP for Rakata..............& then EC
Aso I would change "many" to "some" of which quite a few would be raiders alt characters. Theres a reason many players wont raid and the number 1 answer would be "they dont want to encounter players such as yourself". I know friends who wont raid and regardless of the difficulty they still refuse to raid, because they have no desire to have to put up with the flotsam of society.
Quote:
As someone else has already highlighted, you have ten other flashpoints that you can faceroll. TEN. And you're still not happy because Lost Island violates your ridiculously strict and arbitrary laws about how content should be tuned. Well, too bad. We have only one lone flashpoint and one raid that has any degree of difficulty. Just leave us alone
Is it acceptable for non raiders to clear the same 9 FP for the last 7 months? With the only new puggable addition being Kaon. I'm happy with HM KP & EC, I dont need 4 man content to challenge myself with and would rather allow other segments of the community to have what they enjoy. If non raiders want to run HM LI to get their badges and blue speeder I say let them (I prefer the red one anyway). I just dont see why we should be demanding difficult content in 8 & 16 man as well as 4 man, but then again i'm not that selfish.

Quote:
I'm also confused as to how the following two assertions can be simultaneously possible:

1. No one clears LI for the gear.
Seriously you didnt understand ? Raiders dont run HM LI for gear, there is nothing that drops in that flashpoint/mini raid that cant be picked up from either HM EV or KP. So i'll say it again, raiders dont run HM LI for gear.
Quote:
2. LI is a "disaster" for the casual community because it blocks their gear progression.
Whereas for non raiding/casual players the only place Rakata drops is HM LI (the chest), and it is the only place many of them will ever get Rakata from.

So to summarise raiders dont run HM LI for gear but casuals/non raiders do, as the chest is the only upgrade obtainable through 4 man content.

Quote:
...huh? Besides which, players of any calibre can now get almost full BiS gear with the ridiculous number of BH comms available. "Casuals" (I'm not a fan of the label, but now's not the time for that discussion) get a large portion of the best gear in the game handed to them on a plate, and have the vast majority of endgame content tuned for them. Isn't this enough for you? Don't you have some actual issues worth complaining about?
Either you arent as far along as you claim to be in HM EC or your jumping on the band wagon wanting to return to the days of the special snowflake.
Yes casuals can get Black hole gear MK 1...........................are you seriously going to tell me that it's on par with the MK 2 & 3 Black Hole gear we can get? not to mention campiagn gear. I read the QQ about BH badges being readily accessible and laughed, no matter how hard or long casuals try to gear themselves their gear will always be inferior as the game currently stands. But again i'm not one of those players who spends all his time worrying about everyone else and what they have, I only concern myself with what I have.

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
07.02.2012 , 01:39 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Farbrorolle View Post
Lots of talk about casual players here, well I am a casual player. If you ask me I think the best way to design a mmo is to make the good gear available in 2 ways: Hard content, or very slowly through easy content. So what have Bio done? They have made LI and EC hard to do and drop the good stuff and they have made Tier 1 FP and Ops easier to do and drop Black Hole comms (if you use the random group finder). I think that looks just about right to me. Since I have a vested interrest I checked and it will take me 7 days on the random finder to buy a Black Hole headpiece. Looks about right to me am I wrong?
I'm not overly impressed with the BH gear, like the look but not the stats and in many cases the stats are actually unsuitable for many classes. Campaign gear is the bomb but you need to run EC for that, I suggest you check what modifications are beneficial in the BH gear and take them out to put in your Columi gear (if thats what your wearing) to keep the 4 set bonus.

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
07.02.2012 , 01:59 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by XhenD View Post
I think Lost Island HM has the exact level of difficulty, that beating it requires both decent gear and skills from all the players, and yet it's not too hard that it becomes an "elites only" Flashpoint.

Speaking from experience as a tank, the first time I encountered the first boss, I was slightly undergeared (missing 2 Columi pieces), and I totally panicked. But after a couple of runs (5), we picked up the rhythm, and we finally beat the boss. The process might be long and painful, but in the end it was fun and rewarding, because it required more teamwork than before, and what's MMO without teamwork?

Now after having beaten LI HM a couple of times, it's still fun, because even now I have better gear, you still need the concentration and the cooperation from the players in order to succeed. You can allow yourself one or two mistakes, which is great, but screwing up a bit too much will still cost you, even if the whole team is on Rakata gear. For me it's the only challenging Flashpoint in the game, and no, I do not want Bioware to nerf it, because then the whole game will be a joke, if every content in every mode can be lead by a undergeared/skilled tank who has one of his eyes closed during Boss fight.
I say Kudos to you and well done !

As I told the OP a few pages back, if they are willing to be patient and work on the flashpoint a day a week (not to become to frustrated) they will eventually improve and succeed in completing it. Which is what you did, you worked at it, but I just cant help but think that HM LI will discourage far more players than it will encourage.

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
07.02.2012 , 02:01 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by NoxiousAlby View Post
Silly boy, no one capable of doing HM LI is running it for gear lol...........we do it for the weekly 8 black hole badges and the blue speeder (which I have). You want Rakata gear then run HM EV & KP it's easier than HM LI
I have ran LI on my alts for gear, i have ran it with my merc dps, when he was basically in tionese and worse, he still pulled about 800 -900 dps, and we had no problems. I tank it on my darksin who is half columi and rakata, and never once have had a problem with it; I have even tanked it with a healer wearing lvl 40 green and blues (was desperate for a healer and didnt mind the repair bill if i had gotten one), he died on the droid about 80% into it, but still was able to get it down. I have tanked it with a healer in full rakata though, who couldnt keep up with heals on the second boss.

I have also healed the flashpoint quite a bit on my healer, but never for gear on him.

What i dont get is people talk so much about gear checks and things of that nature, and how gear makes or breaks flash points, but people never talked about how correctly itemized columi is better then non re-itemized rakata, that gear for the most part means nothing if a person doesnt take the time to go through every piece of it and min/max it.

vesani's Avatar


vesani
07.02.2012 , 02:16 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by NoxiousAlby View Post
I'm not overly impressed with the BH gear, like the look but not the stats and in many cases the stats are actually unsuitable for many classes. Campaign gear is the bomb but you need to run EC for that, I suggest you check what modifications are beneficial in the BH gear and take them out to put in your Columi gear (if thats what your wearing) to keep the 4 set bonus.
Campaign isn't "the bomb" at all, in fact, in order to get BiS gear, you need to mix Campaign with BH. It's total rubbish how BiS gear can be obtained by queuing for these face-roll flashpoints every day just because the casual community doesn't want to put the time and effort in to progress through Ops.

I sincerely hope EC HM (or LI HM) will never be nerfed, since they were (and still are for many) a good challenge. While content should still be accessible to "those who can't" (in other words, casuals), there is always Story Mode which is perfectly accessible.

On topic, the Flashpoint is challenging, I don't see how this is a problem, I've done LI HM in many PuG groups with no voice communication, mediocre gear and making a few mistakes with boss strategies, it just requires a brain and a bit of teamwork unlike the other HM FP's which can be practically carried by one well geared DPS. If LI was as easy as say, Taral V, I'm sure many more people would have complained about how the content is easy than they are now with regards to how "hard" it is.

I'm not elitist in any way, I only worry for the future of this game if all the content was homogenized in difficulty and became more of a story experience as the casual players are seemingly demanding.

Nolenthar's Avatar


Nolenthar
07.02.2012 , 02:32 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by NoxiousAlby View Post
stuff
I'm sorry, but it's just you. Seeing a game population as "raider"/"not raider" is quite close-minded. First of all, FP were not designed for the "non raiders". They were designed for the players, whether they are crafters, PvPers, levellers, altoholics, or event raiders. I personnally don't see the game restricted : You do PvP, don't come PvE ! Seriously ?

Second, a 4-man doesn't have to "offer no challenge, requires no coordination". It's your view on the situation only.

SWTOR does many things really good, and that is tuning content. There is 2 content in this game giving challenge to the most competitive crowd (a very large competitive crowd, cause none are overtuned). Those players don't have any challenge anywhere else (well, I myself have because I ended up 2-manning HM, that's how hard the content is), and you complain about the only content which requires them to make friends and learn to play together ? MMO gaming you know ?

And about the content, what you enlight is true as well for everyone. Only 2 HM were added, and that gave 10 HM for the "non competitive players" and 1 HM for the other ones.
Kao'celaar Ildorii, Juyo Master, Mystical Awakening

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
07.02.2012 , 02:43 AM | #39
Take LI off the Speeder quest and most casuals will forget it exists after their first foray there for the Rakghoul Weekly.

I'm a casual but I enjoy raiding when I get the chance, I've yet to clear it but it gives me a goal and I like that. I don't think I've wiped on more than 2 HM FPs in the last month and one of those was a PUG D7 run with no-one having done it before.

Now D7 HM, there is a fun one to run in a recruit geared party without voip.

AhsokaTanorules's Avatar


AhsokaTanorules
07.02.2012 , 03:12 AM | #40
Here is a random gripe about a boss that dead ended my group the on time I went. The Savrap sample. We quickly figured out how to deal with his stomp and to click the consoles when he jumps up. However the spit was doing like monster damage with impunity.

According to what I hear the group has to spread out to avoid splash damage. Each of us were at a separate console and from what I could see the ehaler was in the middle but we were all still taking epic damage the healer couldn't heal us through and getting destroyed. Either the healer was not very well geared or maybe the recert 1.3 patch did something to the boss's spit to make it uber epic. My thoughts at the time was like, either lessen the spit damage or shorten the casting time of console.