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O.K. - Crafting is screwed up.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
O.K. - Crafting is screwed up.

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
06.28.2012 , 01:50 PM | #1
Just as a side note, I have a Phd in Math and although pure did take my share of applied courses and do understand probability.

I have always run a good number of crafting missions and done a lot of REing and have seen the streaks that people have talked about. I have posted as others that this sort of stuff happens and on the whole things seem to be working as they are supposed to. But after 1.3 and the most recent update, I am not so sure any more. While most everything seems to be working (REing going as it should), I have seen over a number of gathering missions results that are making me change my mind. There are two things that have happened to me and my wife that are making me scratch my head.

Edit - In all fairness, I just REed a pair of lvl 41 armormech bracers and got them on the 10 try. Unless something was fixed in the latest patch downloaded today, I stand by my opinion.

1. - From beta to Monday of this week, missions that retun zero results / unsuccessful have be few and usually relagated to low affection companions on low level missions. Now we are seeing about a 20% to 30% failed mission rate on maxed affection companions with efficiency in the mission area being run. What the heck is gong on.

2 - My wife and I have run a good number of level 6 Slicining missions over four combined characters. We have indeed as noted in 1. above started to getting failed missions. On top of that, no one tech mission has returned an augmentor. After about 30 to 40 slicing missions on max affection characters we have not seen one augmentor. I understand that the returns can run in streaks, but whet the heck is going on. Is anyone getting good results in the slicing missions?

I have stopped selling augmentors and am hesitant to keep throwing credits down the tube. Maybe we have hit a string of really bad luck (the rng delight), but "I have a bad feeling about this" and do wonder if the returns on gathering missions have been nerfed.

PS - The mail system is screwed up with things that you click on just disappearing and the mail dropping off into space and the stack splitter has become an adventure to use since in many cases it give NaN if you enter a number that with the 1 that is there gives more items than is already in the stack or if you try to get rid of the default 1, it goes to NaN and freezes there.

This all seems to be BW as usual.

Telanis's Avatar


Telanis
06.28.2012 , 02:15 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
Just as a side note, I have a Phd in Math and although pure did take my share of applied courses and do understand probability.

I have always run a good number of crafting missions and done a lot of REing and have seen the streaks that people have talked about. I have posted as others that this sort of stuff happens and on the whole things seem to be working as they are supposed to. But after 1.3 and the most recent update, I am not so sure any more. While most everything seems to be working (REing going as it should), I have seen over a number of gathering missions results that are making me change my mind. There are two things that have happened to me and my wife that are making me scratch my head.

1. - From beta to Monday of this week, missions that retun zero results / unsuccessful have be few and usually relagated to low affection companions on low level missions. Now we are seeing about a 20% to 30% failed mission rate on maxed affection companions with efficiency in the mission area being run. What the heck is gong on.

2 - My wife and I have run a good number of level 6 Slicining missions over four combined characters. We have indeed as noted in 1. above started to getting failed missions. On top of that, no one tech mission has returned an augmentor. After about 30 to 40 slicing missions on max affection characters we have not seen one augmentor. I understand that the returns can run in streaks, but whet the heck is going on. Is anyone getting good results in the slicing missions?

I have stopped selling augmentors and am hesitant to keep throwing credits down the tube. Maybe we have hit a string of really bad luck (the rng delight), but "I have a bad feeling about this" and do wonder if the returns on gathering missions have been nerfed.

PS - The mail system is screwed up with things that you click on just disappearing and the mail dropping off into space and the stack splitter has become an adventure to use since in many cases it give NaN if you enter a number that with the 1 that is there gives more items than is already in the stack or if you try to get rid of the default 1, it goes to NaN and freezes there.

This all seems to be BW as usual.
OK, so you have a PhD in math ... did you crunch the numbers? If it wouldn't surprise you if this happened to a single person, it shouldn't be very much more surprising that it's happening to two people. Seems just like coincidence that this is happening to you and your wife.

I haven't seen more complaints than usual about this, and as you know, that wouldn't really matter too much as the number of people who post about these things isn't statistically meaningful. BioWare does have the stats, so I'd just trust them to detect if something goes wrong. This stuff isn't hard to get right after all, and so far the bugs with
RE chance have been relegated to improper tooltips and the like (things that are likely not confirmed by multiple BW employees, unlike important game algorithms, and were probably just mistyped).

There are certainly other crafting and item bugs to be reported, like mail as you say, but those are both obvious and can be independently confirmed rather than in aggregate. I'd stick with reporting those.

Splaktar's Avatar


Splaktar
06.28.2012 , 04:31 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
Just as a side note, I have a Phd in Math and although pure did take my share of applied courses and do understand probability.

I have always run a good number of crafting missions and done a lot of REing and have seen the streaks that people have talked about. I have posted as others that this sort of stuff happens and on the whole things seem to be working as they are supposed to. But after 1.3 and the most recent update, I am not so sure any more. While most everything seems to be working (REing going as it should), I have seen over a number of gathering missions results that are making me change my mind. There are two things that have happened to me and my wife that are making me scratch my head.

1. - From beta to Monday of this week, missions that retun zero results / unsuccessful have be few and usually relagated to low affection companions on low level missions. Now we are seeing about a 20% to 30% failed mission rate on maxed affection companions with efficiency in the mission area being run. What the heck is gong on.

2 - My wife and I have run a good number of level 6 Slicining missions over four combined characters. We have indeed as noted in 1. above started to getting failed missions. On top of that, no one tech mission has returned an augmentor. After about 30 to 40 slicing missions on max affection characters we have not seen one augmentor. I understand that the returns can run in streaks, but whet the heck is going on. Is anyone getting good results in the slicing missions?

I have stopped selling augmentors and am hesitant to keep throwing credits down the tube. Maybe we have hit a string of really bad luck (the rng delight), but "I have a bad feeling about this" and do wonder if the returns on gathering missions have been nerfed.

PS - The mail system is screwed up with things that you click on just disappearing and the mail dropping off into space and the stack splitter has become an adventure to use since in many cases it give NaN if you enter a number that with the 1 that is there gives more items than is already in the stack or if you try to get rid of the default 1, it goes to NaN and freezes there.

This all seems to be BW as usual.
I've been getting purple drops from slicing missions rarely, as expected. RNG is not broken. The demand is sky high and the supply is quite limited. I'm having to level slicing on a couple other toons to try to keep up with it.
Splaktar - Mercenary - Jedi Covenant

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
06.28.2012 , 05:18 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Splaktar View Post
I've been getting purple drops from slicing missions rarely, as expected. RNG is not broken. The demand is sky high and the supply is quite limited. I'm having to level slicing on a couple other toons to try to keep up with it.
Thanks.

Than I guess, I am in a bad streak and will work through it.

The trouble with a rng enterprise with a finite number of throws is that any result is possible. I asked because in light of that, if I tossed a coin a 1000 times and came up with 1000 tails, I would understand that it is possible if not probable and sure as heck check the coin. Asking others about their experience post 1.3 is as close as I can get to checking that coin as far as swtor is concerned.

Ster-Ling's Avatar


Ster-Ling
06.28.2012 , 05:27 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
2 - My wife and I have run a good number of level 6 Slicining missions over four combined characters. We have indeed as noted in 1. above started to getting failed missions. On top of that, no one tech mission has returned an augmentor. After about 30 to 40 slicing missions on max affection characters we have not seen one augmentor. I understand that the returns can run in streaks, but whet the heck is going on. Is anyone getting good results in the slicing missions?
Please clarify what you mean by "augmentor."

If you mean the Augmentation Kits (MK 1-6), those are crafted. They do not come from slicing missions.

If you mean the materials needed to craft the Augmentation Kits, those come from reverse-engineering armor pieces (perhaps weapons as well). Not from slicing missions.

Slicing missions drop materials to craft augments (note: not the Augmentation Kits, but the augments to go in the slot). And they also drop schematics for making augments. (Again, not the kit, but the augment.)

RickAdams's Avatar


RickAdams
06.28.2012 , 05:28 PM | #6
I agree with you, I am seeing MUCH more failed missions than usual. Almost every single run of 5 missions sees 1 sometimes 2 failed missions on maxed affection companions. This is across 8 toons so I do feel like something is not quite right.

However, on the other end, I am seeing plenty of purples from my slicing missions (going for about 30k on my server right now), assuming they don't fail outright.

Oggthebase's Avatar


Oggthebase
06.28.2012 , 05:45 PM | #7
I can sympathize with you OP as I am in the same boat. Eventhough I understand the math and the numbers with statistics, when I'm having a bad streak it's difficult to keep my head straight when my guts tell me that it's not possible to be that unlucky.

But then a few weeks ago I've seen the same person roll twice a "1" with a /roll for loot, so yeah, numbers... are harsh sometimes.

So to answer your question, personally, with 1.3 I've not seen any "extraordinary" bad streak on my side.

teolawki's Avatar


teolawki
06.28.2012 , 07:42 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Telanis View Post
OK, so you have a PhD in math ... did you crunch the numbers? If it wouldn't surprise you if this happened to a single person, it shouldn't be very much more surprising that it's happening to two people. Seems just like coincidence that this is happening to you and your wife.

I haven't seen more complaints than usual about this, and as you know, that wouldn't really matter too much as the number of people who post about these things isn't statistically meaningful. BioWare does have the stats, so I'd just trust them to detect if something goes wrong. This stuff isn't hard to get right after all, and so far the bugs with
RE chance have been relegated to improper tooltips and the like (things that are likely not confirmed by multiple BW employees, unlike important game algorithms, and were probably just mistyped).

There are certainly other crafting and item bugs to be reported, like mail as you say, but those are both obvious and can be independently confirmed rather than in aggregate. I'd stick with reporting those.
Hold on a moment. I've seen you post this same thing on multiple threads. When you say that Bioware has the stats, does that mean you are a Bioware employee and have actually seen the stats you're talking about? Or are you simply making an assumption? I just thought you might want to clear that up for us.

You should also feel free to use this opportunity to produce the factual evidence that what posts exist about this and similar issues aren't statistically relevant (you really seem to be enamored with statistics). My eyes tell me there are actually a fairly large number of posts similar to this dating from launch.

I also note that you begin your replies being derisive of the person you're replying to. I'm pretty sure most of the folks that take time to post here about crafting issues aren't doing so frivolously. They, for whatever reason, have all encountered something that they perceive to be out of the ordinary. I don't see how that should earn them your ire.

About the math; the majority of the posts I've seen have a lot of chatter about whether the math is right or wrong. I think that line of reasoning is missing the forest for the trees. After all, the math is the math as far as that subject goes.

However, there is much more going on behind the scenes than just one calculation. A lot of code must interact interdependently for these ingame functions such as crew missions, reverse engineering, etc. Add to this the environment variables, for instance software or hardware loads, and you could see behavior that is undesirable and/or unpredictable. The more laggy behavior you see in more populated locations is a simple example of this (undesirable, but predictable).

My point is that at least some of these people posting may be experiencing something that has nothing to do with a mathematics calculation for a random number. It could be something else entirely. If that is the case, then neither mathematics nor statistics will be useful for investigating the possible issues being posted by players. For that reason alone I don't think it wise to disregard this and similar posts.

And before you ask: I'm currently a Senior Systems Engineer with 15 years in IT at a medium size company. So I can say that I'm at least somewhat familiar with the subject. But hey, a PHD in math doesn't mean much to you so I don't expect my creds will either.

Samoth_Nomad's Avatar


Samoth_Nomad
06.28.2012 , 07:47 PM | #9
I'll chime in here with my experience since 1.3. I'm DEFINITELY seeing an increase to mission failures. All of my companions are 10k. Rarely did they ever fail a standard gathering mission(maybe 1 in 100). As of today, they failure rate seems to be about 50%.

Kizee's Avatar


Kizee
06.29.2012 , 08:04 AM | #10
I have been getting a lot more fails on missions too.

Also, RE chance seems to have plummeted also. It has taken me 3-4x as many RE's to upgrade a green schem to blue than before the patch.