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Is Full battlemaster good enough?


Infalliable's Avatar


Infalliable
06.22.2012 , 12:24 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by FuulishOne View Post
You're making an assumption that BM geared folks haven't done the ops before. Realize that for a lot of folks, BM stats are much better than Tionese and therefore they're overgeared for SM EV/KP.

Also realize that there's enough level 50 alts out there wearing full BM that probably have mains that have completed all the ops already so know the fights. I would hesitate profiling people based on the gear they are wearing. All Rakata gear means is someone entered an HM:EV/KP at some point in time and won a drop. It doesn't mean they're good, or if they were carried or not.

Don't "bar" people from your groups based solely on gear (I'm looking at the folks that want a gear check in the group finder), but talk to them instead and see what their experience is.
The post you quoted was in response to doing EC. A group of all BM geared people is going to have a very hard time with EC, regardless of having done it on another character. A single person in BM gear (or a few) can do EC with a decent team around them. A full team of BM people leaves very low margins for error. Also, while we've taken mostly BM people into EC (and other difficult ops) before, I would never suggest doing it with a PUG player you're not sure of.

Tionese gear doesn't even enter into the equation on EC, it's just not going to cut it.

Also, there is always going to be a certain person who sucks and just can't do it. They're not really relevant to the conversation as their gear doesn't matter if they fail all the "derp" checks.

FuulishOne's Avatar


FuulishOne
06.22.2012 , 12:27 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Infalliable View Post
The post you quoted was in response to doing EC. A group of all BM geared people is going to have a very hard time with EC, regardless of having done it on another character. A single person in BM gear (or a few) can do EC with a decent team around them. A full team of BM people leaves very low margins for error. Also, while we've taken BM people into EC (and other difficult ops) before, I would never suggest doing it with a PUG player you're not sure of.

Tionese gear doesn't even enter into the equation on EC, it's just not going to cut it.
Apologies, I quoted the wrong thing. As I said in my post, gear-wise BM is more than enough for the OP's question which was EV/KP story mode. My real concern with this line of questioning is the type of gear score/check profiling that occurred in WoW and that folks are asking for in the PTS threads with regards to the group finder. I simply encourage discussion with the player more than just looking at their gear.

Infalliable's Avatar


Infalliable
06.22.2012 , 12:29 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by FuulishOne View Post
Apologies, I quoted the wrong thing. As I said in my post, gear-wise BM is more than enough for the OP's question which was EV/KP story mode.
Definitely, I'd even say it's plenty for both EV and KP hard modes.

IIIGinoIII's Avatar


IIIGinoIII
06.22.2012 , 12:59 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Retneprac View Post
I'm merely trying to point out that gear doesn't make the player good. But good gear makes a good player better.. And just because you see somebody in full battlemaster/war hero does NOT mean they haven't done the raids before.
EXACTLY!!!! I see many guys geared out and they still don't have the skill set to PvP or PvE successfully.

Craxim's Avatar


Craxim
06.22.2012 , 01:21 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Infalliable View Post
Definitely, I'd even say it's plenty for both EV and KP hard modes.
Agreed.


Quote: Originally Posted by IIIGinoIII View Post
EXACTLY!!!! I see many guys geared out and they still don't have the skill set to PvP or PvE successfully.
Also agreed.
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Ameepa's Avatar


Ameepa
06.22.2012 , 01:25 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Retneprac View Post
As the Guild Leader/Raid Leader for a fully SWTOR progressed group, I am going to say something that a lot of you "hardcore raiders" might not want to hear.. The Hardcore PVPers make much better raiders than pvErs. They (pvpers) think faster on their feet and have better situational awareness, and actually know what all those buttons on their toolbars do. Also, if you have full battlemaster/war hero, by all means, you are welcome in my raids. That means you've spent at least 2-3 weeks casually or 1-2 weeks hardcore earning the comms to buy the stuff.

I just pugged myself into a republic side raid last night on my gunslinger (full war hero, 0 T/C/R). Guess what? According to SWMONITOR I was the highest DPSer out of the 4 with an average sustatined DPS of around 1200, and 1 of them was a mix of rakata/columi with all of the rest of them in columi with very little tionese... So please, you PVE'Raid'Elitists, step off of your perch and get back down to reality. PVPers make better raiders. /End of discussion.
First, I hate "end of discussion" endings. Discussion is not going to end and it shouldn't end. It's just your opinion, not universal truth.

Second, very well put, I agree

And to the OP, yes BM is more than enough for story mode EV/KP

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
06.22.2012 , 01:31 PM | #27
Define good enough. If you are OK with being carried and not pulling your weight, yes it is good enough.
Unsubscribed due to no new Operations.
I am happy that there will be a renewed focus on story, I love story, its why I picked this MMO. But I picked an MMO, not an episodic single player RPG that I have to pay a subscription to receive the episodes.

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
06.22.2012 , 01:34 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Retneprac View Post
As the Guild Leader/Raid Leader for a fully SWTOR progressed group, I am going to say something that a lot of you "hardcore raiders" might not want to hear.. The Hardcore PVPers make much better raiders than pvErs. They (pvpers) think faster on their feet and have better situational awareness, and actually know what all those buttons on their toolbars do. Also, if you have full battlemaster/war hero, by all means, you are welcome in my raids. That means you've spent at least 2-3 weeks casually or 1-2 weeks hardcore earning the comms to buy the stuff.

I just pugged myself into a republic side raid last night on my gunslinger (full war hero, 0 T/C/R). Guess what? According to SWMONITOR I was the highest DPSer out of the 4 with an average sustatined DPS of around 1200, and 1 of them was a mix of rakata/columi with all of the rest of them in columi with very little tionese... So please, you PVE'Raid'Elitists, step off of your perch and get back down to reality. PVPers make better raiders. /End of discussion.
This is not necessarily true. While there is definitely some carryover, great PvEers can also make great PvPers. And just because someone PvPs does not necessarily mean that A) they are good at PvP and B) they will be good at PvE.

The lowest DPS in my guild joined us with full BM gear. We've got him some rakata/BH gear since then and he is still the lowest DPS, still occasionally stands in fire or is out of position.

To me, trying to do end game PvE in PvP gear is a sign of laziness, not skill.
Unsubscribed due to no new Operations.
I am happy that there will be a renewed focus on story, I love story, its why I picked this MMO. But I picked an MMO, not an episodic single player RPG that I have to pay a subscription to receive the episodes.

Craxim's Avatar


Craxim
06.22.2012 , 01:51 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
This is not necessarily true. While there is definitely some carryover, great PvEers can also make great PvPers. And just because someone PvPs does not necessarily mean that A) they are good at PvP and B) they will be good at PvE.

The lowest DPS in my guild joined us with full BM gear. We've got him some rakata/BH gear since then and he is still the lowest DPS, still occasionally stands in fire or is out of position.

To me, trying to do end game PvE in PvP gear is a sign of laziness, not skill.
Couldn't agree more. Anyone who thinks that just because one PvPs or is good at PvP will make them good at PvE on a high-end level is ignorant in my opinion.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
06.22.2012 , 01:55 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Craxim View Post
As far as "clicking". When talking about hardcore raiders, there is no clicking. That does not go on at the high-end level.
Go to youtube. I've seen NiM runs with clicker snipers/gunslingers and commandos/mercs. In PVE, it really doesn't make that much of a difference when you're just standing still.

SM ops are fine with BM, but if you haven't gone through the HM FPs before, I'd suggest gearing up that way because your PVE rotation is not going to be the same as your PVP rotation. Since each HM drops a different columni piece, you can gear up as fast as you want by running each one.
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