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The Old Republic at E3 2012!

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The Old Republic at E3 2012!
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Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
06.19.2012 , 05:13 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by hargrave View Post
Its called open world pvp. If you think 4 wz's is uber then lolz. Its been out 6 months and this is all they have? Seriously go play lotro or dcuo rift then youll see what im "on" about. Your just settling for poor pvp this is crap shrug...
I have an idea, turn on your pvp flag and organize stuff wih other like minded people on your server for open world pvp, people are doing it in the den and in open worlds areas on servers like jun, if you like those other games so much go play those its as simple as that, if they are so great you wouldnt be here, take off the rose tinted glasses.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

Mogsey's Avatar


Mogsey
06.19.2012 , 05:16 AM | #42
That E3 debacle is nothing but a load of rubbish.

I would like to know what game they were on about as it can't be this pile of drivel. I have never been so bored so quickly in an mmo and i have certainly played alot.

Nah its a load of old bumkum, i sense that they are suffering from a panic attack.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
06.19.2012 , 05:20 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Shingara View Post
The incentive for people doing open world pvp IS open world pvp, there are areas for it, the den and and every other area in the world not blocked off to one faction or the other. Its the pvp community that either make or break open world pvp on its own community.

If you need a shiney to make you do open world pvp then your doing it for reward and not for openworld pvp. Bioware gave the tools once and players used it 1st as a pve excersices and mainly ignored the other side, then they started trading kills and then one side go to big for the other and ended up being ganked to the point where a bug hit and gravecamping started.


The idea that mass open world PvP has ever existed in a MMORPG for mass open world PvP's sake is largely a myth.

Ganking? Sure. Especially when MMORPGs had full looting and you could make someone body rot..... but that's not the same thing (and frankly that doesn't exist in many MMORPGs these days either).

RvR is the only form of open world PvP that has ever drawn and kept mass players and mass battles, and SWTOR simply doesn't have any (as they withdrew what little they had).





Disapointingly if you look a Planetside 2 (or even Planetside 1 ) you can see exactly would could have been done with SWTOR PvP and RvR.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
06.19.2012 , 05:22 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
The idea that mass open world PvP has ever existed in a MMORPG for mass open world PvP's sake is largely a myth.

Ganking? Sure. Especially when MMORPGs had full looting and you could make someone body rot..... but that's not the same thing (and frankly that doesn't exist in many MMORPGs these days either).

RvR is the only form of open world PvP that has ever drawn and kept mass players and mass battles, and SWTOR simply doesn't have any (as they withdrew what little they had).





Disapointingly if you look a Planetside 2 (or even Planetside 1 ) you can see exactly would could have been done with SWTOR PvP and RvR.
This isnt an RvR game, warhammer and guildwars etc are RvR games. And when we had what we had, of which the den is still in it became abused, people ignoring the pvp todo pve/pvp dailys, trading kills, base ganking via a bug.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
06.19.2012 , 05:24 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Shingara View Post
I have an idea, turn on your pvp flag and organize stuff wih other like minded people on your server for open world pvp, people are doing it in the den and in open worlds areas on servers like jun, if you like those other games so much go play those its as simple as that, if they are so great you wouldnt be here, take off the rose tinted glasses.
That shouldn't be needed, it should be optional.


With a decent RvR basin there should be 24/7 RvR and PvP in SWTOR, however Ilum was a terrible RvR basin in pretty much every way (I have no idea how people that worked on Warhammer Online could build one so intrinsically rubbish ) and the engine is suspect too (and will need serious optimisation).

If they'd just cloned DAoCs frontier system from 2001 they'd have had something infinately better than Ilum.

I wouldn't mind if they hadn't promised PvP and the artist formerly known as RvR (although I suspect them refusing to refer to it as that meant they didn't buy the hype they were pushing at the time - which raises serious questions), but they did.

They could even had just clones a basic basin set up from WAR (with a 1.3.6 balance system) and again that would have been infinately better than Ilum.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
06.19.2012 , 05:28 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
That shouldn't be needed, it should be optional.


With a decent RvR basin there should be 24/7 RvR and PvP in SWTOR, however Ilum was a terrible RvR basin in pretty much every way (I have no idea how people that worked on Warhammer Online could build one so intrinsically rubbish ) and the engine is suspect too (and will need serious optimisation).

If they'd just cloned DAoCs frontier system from 2001 they'd have had something infinately better than Ilum.

I wouldn't mind if they hadn't promised PvP and the artist formerly known as RvR (although I suspect them refusing to refer to it as that meant they didn't buy the hype they were pushing at the time - which raises serious questions), but they did.

They could even had just clones a basic basin set up from WAR (with a 1.3.6 balance system) and again that would have been infinately better than Ilum.
Like i have always said illum was badly designed, it should have been on a timer like wows with a flashpoint or operation within it, but what we had was abused and its laughable for anyone to deny that, the dailys in there were done whilst ignoring the other side, there was basically a truce held by the community to just do the dailys as fast as possible and get out of there. then they put kills in the mix and people started mass trading kills again perpetuated by the community. And the straw that broke the camels back was a bug hit and one sided spawn camped the gy to rank up the valor to the degree of insanity thus putting the nail in the coffin as to say for illum.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
06.19.2012 , 05:28 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Shingara View Post
This isnt an RvR game, warhammer and guildwars etc are RvR games. And when we had what we had, of which the den is still in it became abused, people ignoring the pvp todo pve/pvp dailys, trading kills, base ganking via a bug.
That stuff happens in all "RvR" games (DAoC, PS, WAR etc., I've seen all that in all of them).

It doesn't take long for a combination of tweaking the game systems (dimishing returns and balancing systems), bug fixing and GM enforcement to sort those things out to a managable level.


That's no excuse for the worst implimentation of RvR ever seen in an MMORPG and then removing it.

And SWTOR was sold on it's RvR and PvP strengths......... I completely agree they didn't exists, but you'd never know that from the pre-release sales hype.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
06.19.2012 , 05:31 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
That stuff happens in all "RvR" games (DAoC, PS, WAR etc., I've seen all that in all of them).

It doesn't take long for a combination of tweaking the game systems (dimishing returns and balancing systems), bug fixing and GM enforcement to sort those things out to a managable level.


That's no excuse for the worst implimentation of RvR ever seen in an MMORPG and then removing it.

And SWTOR was sold on it's RvR and PvP strengths......... I completely agree they didn't exists, but you'd never know that from the pre-release sales hype.
The only way that could have been policed is for a gm to sit and watch the zone all the time and to physicaly create hatred between the factions to want to kill each other on sight, that wasnt the case, both sides worked as a team in the main to gain the pvp ranks.

And that was the problem, there was no lose involved with it, there was nothing but gain via the ranks, warhammer worked because it gave buffs to the zone and it made it possible to attack the main citys, wows works because there is a raid and vendors only usable when you control the zone. That made them worth fighting the other side for.

If they put a pve 8/16 man operation that gave pvp drops in illum now and pvp vendor only usable within a 1-3 hour time window and made all daily missions only doable when you control the zone or are taking it then illum would work instantly. Blizzard may poach ideas like a burglar likes silver but when they get the idea right, they really get the idea right.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

TheLordMagnus's Avatar


TheLordMagnus
06.19.2012 , 05:40 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by BenjaminminU View Post
Looking forward to this new content, especially HK-51, please release a video preview so we can see him so all us KOTOR addicts have something to look forward to
it was HK-47

what does hk-51 a rip off droid inspire u to do but cry at what they have done lol
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Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
06.19.2012 , 06:07 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Shingara View Post
The only way that could have been policed is for a gm to sit and watch the zone all the time and to physicaly create hatred between the factions to want to kill each other on sight, that wasnt the case, both sides worked as a team in the main to gain the pvp ranks.

And that was the problem, there was no lose involved with it, there was nothing but gain via the ranks, warhammer worked because it gave buffs to the zone and it made it possible to attack the main citys, wows works because there is a raid and vendors only usable when you control the zone. That made them worth fighting the other side for.

If they put a pve 8/16 man operation that gave pvp drops in illum now and pvp vendor only usable within a 1-3 hour time window and made all daily missions only doable when you control the zone illum would work instantly. Blizzard may poach ideas like a burglar likes silver but when they get the idea right, they really get the idea right.
Proper diminishing returns would have made it pointless, with it kill trading in WAR only worked if you did 100% of the damage, were a lot lower in rank AND had a large pool of people to line up to die (which made it effectively pointless, over actually fighting, for everyone but gold farmers).

But again the utterly horrible design of the zone was also largely to blame, there wasn't enough reward for winning or losing or indeed a clear way to win or lose really.

I could have seen it from a dev team that had never been anywhere near an RvR game, but just playing an RvR game would have allowed most people to design a better systems, never mind that many of the people working on SWTOR had worked on WAR (and that Biware was running WAR).
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1