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Thinking about respeccing as healer, need advice

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Thinking about respeccing as healer, need advice

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
06.19.2012 , 06:06 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Marrkin View Post
*EDIT* : I ran a little test and found that the 3 rounds of Disturbance does NOT grant 10% Force regen per stack. Turns out that basically you may time it so that the regen takes place over a period of nearly 30 seconds if you watch the Concentration effect icon, and simply recast it as it gets low each time. Once you hit 3 stacks you must let that 3rd stack dissipate, and then you may start the cycle over again.
<--- I could be wrong on this, but I am basing my numbers purely on what appears in my character sheet after casting this.
Keep in mind, this is not an easy answer to power, as Concentration will only net you an overall ~2% increase over your natural Force Regen.
I think what you meant to to say is that it only gives you an extra 2 force per second ~ not 2%. The regen rate on the character card isn't expressed as a percentage. And it probably just rounds down for display purposes.
@10% per stack with three stacks = +30%,
the noraml rate is 8 force/second
30% of 8 is 2.4
total would be 10.4
If it rounds down 10 would be displayed on the card, but I've honestly never even looked at it.

~edit~ checked it out- it does indeed read 10.4 which is a 30% increase
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

Marrkin's Avatar


Marrkin
06.20.2012 , 11:22 AM | #12
Well thank you for checking!

I figured my numbers were off, so it doesn't surprise me in the least. I really only checked this particular mechanic with a glance, and didn't crunch hard numbers for it.
Shattner: 55 VG Tank Marrkin: 55 Sage Heals
Simmett: 55 Sentinel Hungwei'lo: 55 Sharpshooter
Guild: The Church of Alvis - Jedi Covenant Server

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.20.2012 , 01:23 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Marrkin View Post
...

I ran a little test and found that the 3 rounds of Disturbance does NOT grant 10% Force regen per stack. Turns out that basically you may time it so that the regen takes place over a period of nearly 30 seconds if you watch the Concentration effect icon, and simply recast it as it gets low each time. Once you hit 3 stacks you must let that 3rd stack dissipate, and then you may start the cycle over again.

...
I'm slightly confused. Do you mean to say

1. Before the 3-stacks of concentration run out, fire another disturbance to refresh it
or
2. Let the 3-stacks run out completely and start from scratch.

I've been doing 1 as it seemed logical to me. Can you clarify?

Thanks.

Marrkin's Avatar


Marrkin
06.20.2012 , 01:59 PM | #14
You cannot refresh it if you have 3 stacks already.

This only works if you have 1 or 2 stacks, for example:

Cast Disturbance, create stack #1...
wait about 6 seconds (cast something else)....
Cast Disturbance, create stack #2...
wait about 6 seconds (again prob casting something else)
Cast Disturbance, create stack #3.

From here it will not allow you to refresh the Concentration buff. You must let it expire and start the cycle over again.

However, based on what was also posted above, this would not be a preferred method. The 3 stacks do generate a 30% increase, so "stepping" the stacks seems that it would be counterproductive.
Shattner: 55 VG Tank Marrkin: 55 Sage Heals
Simmett: 55 Sentinel Hungwei'lo: 55 Sharpshooter
Guild: The Church of Alvis - Jedi Covenant Server

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
06.20.2012 , 02:04 PM | #15
I'm glad the issue was brought up!

Before the 1.2 patch came down the only dps I did as a healer was regular casts of weaken mind, because doing more always seemed to put me OOF. But those were the days before I was specced for concentration.

Many people disagree with the idea, but
healer dps = shorter fights = less overall mob dps = less healing needed
~ and for sages, the majority our other abilities cost less resource than heals.

Since 1.2 I've experimented with a lot of different ways to increase my sage throughput of heals + dps, and stretch my force pool as far as possible at the same time.

Keeping a 3 stack of concentration with a minimum number of disturbance casts is definately a way to do it.
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.21.2012 , 10:01 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Marrkin View Post
You cannot refresh it if you have 3 stacks already.

This only works if you have 1 or 2 stacks, for example:

Cast Disturbance, create stack #1...
wait about 6 seconds (cast something else)....
Cast Disturbance, create stack #2...
wait about 6 seconds (again prob casting something else)
Cast Disturbance, create stack #3.

From here it will not allow you to refresh the Concentration buff. You must let it expire and start the cycle over again.

However, based on what was also posted above, this would not be a preferred method. The 3 stacks do generate a 30% increase, so "stepping" the stacks seems that it would be counterproductive.
This doesn't appear to be correct.

Last night I found a lower level Champion boss to practice on (he can't hurt me but has a ton of HP so takes a long time to kill).

I did this: Disturbance -> Project -> TK Wave -> Disturbance -> Project -> TK Wave -> Disturbance etc etc. I basically repeated the D/P/TKW rotation until the boss was dead. Project is very expensive, so I should have run out of force earlier, but I didn't. The stack of [3] would be about halfway run out by the time the next Disturbance came around in the rotation, and it would refresh to full.

At no time in this rotation did I let the stack of [3] expire or run out.

When the boss finally died, I checked my character sheet and my force regen was listed as 10.4. As soon as the Concentration proc ran out, regen dropped back to 8.

So one can absolutely refresh the Concentration force regen if it has 3 stacks, there is no need for it to run out.

Marrkin's Avatar


Marrkin
06.21.2012 , 11:59 AM | #17
Well,

Not sure what may have changed. I will be sure to check it out as well.

I did state that I typed it out a while back, (i think a day ot two after 1.2 went live, on my guild forums) and I have not gone back to look at any of it since.

You may be on to something there! Thank you also for taking a look at this mechanic.
Shattner: 55 VG Tank Marrkin: 55 Sage Heals
Simmett: 55 Sentinel Hungwei'lo: 55 Sharpshooter
Guild: The Church of Alvis - Jedi Covenant Server

XtremJedi's Avatar


XtremJedi
06.21.2012 , 01:19 PM | #18
Quote:
Now, as far as the Force regen goes, I will usually finish one healing rotation then cast off a quick 3 rounds of Disturbance, depending of course if I happened to fit it into whatever rotation I started the fight with. The purpose for this is to acquire 3 stacks of Concentration, which grants you a 10 percent increase of Force regen per stack for 10 seconds.
Bleh, I wasn't going to get involved, but nobody else has pointed it out... but firing off Disturbance 3 times doesn't give you any nett regen. The cost of casting the Disturbances, is more than you gain from the Concentration stacks. All it does, is allow you to cast some cheaper Disturbances... it still costs you force overall.

It just sounds like Marrkin is suggesting that he regains force by casting 3 disturbances at the end of his healing rotation. In reality, casting disturbance always costs you force. Concentration just makes it cost less force than normal.

Just mentioning it to be on the safe side, as this thread was started by a new healer asking for information... and suggesting that Disturbance/Concentration can regain force is just incorrect.

X

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.21.2012 , 02:01 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by XtremJedi View Post
Bleh, I wasn't going to get involved, but nobody else has pointed it out... but firing off Disturbance 3 times doesn't give you any nett regen. The cost of casting the Disturbances, is more than you gain from the Concentration stacks. All it does, is allow you to cast some cheaper Disturbances... it still costs you force overall.

It just sounds like Marrkin is suggesting that he regains force by casting 3 disturbances at the end of his healing rotation. In reality, casting disturbance always costs you force. Concentration just makes it cost less force than normal.

Just mentioning it to be on the safe side, as this thread was started by a new healer asking for information... and suggesting that Disturbance/Concentration can regain force is just incorrect.

X
You are correct in that it is still force negative, but not by very much if you keep it refreshed at 3 stacks. Then the question becomes, is the additional dps of value or not.

1. Disturbance costs 30 force
2. Inner Strength = 9% discount = ~25 force cost.
3. Once you have it at 3 stacks, it requires 1 disturbance every 8-9 seconds (have to clip it so it doesn't reset)
4. Concentration x 3 = 2.4 points of regen per second.
5. So ~25 force cost every 8-9 seconds with a ~20 force return.
6. Depending on gear that is ~800-1400 damange per disturbance.
7. So that adds about 100-200 dps to the group output, for a net loss of 0.5 force per second, plus the loss of one GCD per 9 seconds.

I'm starting to rethink its value. My current build includes benefits for some additional dps:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600GGbRMdbdGzZf0dM.1

But I don't think the return outweighs the cost. I'm going to try this next, eliminating any dps contributing talents:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...0dGzZf00MZ0M.1

Marrkin's Avatar


Marrkin
06.21.2012 , 03:32 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by XtremJedi View Post
Bleh, I wasn't going to get involved, but nobody else has pointed it out... but firing off Disturbance 3 times doesn't give you any nett regen. The cost of casting the Disturbances, is more than you gain from the Concentration stacks. All it does, is allow you to cast some cheaper Disturbances... it still costs you force overall.

It just sounds like Marrkin is suggesting that he regains force by casting 3 disturbances at the end of his healing rotation. In reality, casting disturbance always costs you force. Concentration just makes it cost less force than normal.

Just mentioning it to be on the safe side, as this thread was started by a new healer asking for information... and suggesting that Disturbance/Concentration can regain force is just incorrect.

X
I am not ingorant enough to actually believe that its useful for the sole purpose of regaining force. If that is how it was read, then I apologize for making it confusing. It is however built into the way I manage my force pool. Take that as you will, but I can say that the times are rare when I am OOF, unless there is a particularly squishy tank or overly costly mistakes in Ops that I need to heal over.

I put it here as a catalyst. If you can take away anything useful from it, improve upon it, or even use it as a guide for what you don't want to do, then it has accomplished the reason I put it here. "Idea building" is all it is for. If its taken as an end-all-be-all, then may the gods' help whoever takes it that way.

I will say however if there are suggestions out there for Jeff, that I am interested in hearing them as well. I always like to hear things about Heal Sages and how they operate outside of a PVP environment (since nearly everything I read anymore about Heal Sages inside a PVP environment mostly involves alot of somewhat understandable negativity, and I don't PVP on my Sage at all anymore). The more we all share, the more potential that those who play our class have for improvement.
Shattner: 55 VG Tank Marrkin: 55 Sage Heals
Simmett: 55 Sentinel Hungwei'lo: 55 Sharpshooter
Guild: The Church of Alvis - Jedi Covenant Server