Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Is Telekinetics DPS a "smart player" build?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Is Telekinetics DPS a "smart player" build?

Toogeloo's Avatar


Toogeloo
06.16.2012 , 06:18 PM | #1
I leveled as and am continuing to play as Hybrid (1/12/28) DPS spec, and I quite enjoy the mobility and instant CC that it provides, but I've been getting a bit of flak from one of my server's Sages, stating that Hybrid is too faceroll and that only the truly good Sages play Telekinetics because it's a spec for smarter players and blows Balance and Hybrid out of the water when played correctly.

I've been under the impression that there is little to no difference between the 3 most talked about DPS specs, but I've also seen the proof in differences between a Marauder who does just as much dps as me, and a really good Marauder who destroys everyone's dps in raids, and considered this might also be a possible case where the more complicated spec of Telekinetics could potentially be better if it's played to it fullest and will outperform Hybrid and Balance even at their best.


I've been considering switching specs because I do want to bring the best dps I can, but just how difficult are we talking about here that Telekinetics is a better dps spec but only if it's played by a Smarter player?

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
06.16.2012 , 07:07 PM | #2
All 3 specc's TK/Balance/Hybrid should be within 1% of each other when you are talking single target, tank and spank DPS. With Hybrid winning, Balance coming in second, and TK last.

Emphasis on single target. This will includes most of the T1 Operation Encounters and most importantly the Operation Dummy.

However as a Lightning Sorcerer I can tell you, Denova will favor a Telekinetic build so much its almost as if the Operation wad designed for us.

The first two bosses have two mobs. DoT both, enjoy the increased procc's of Lightning Barrage (Forget the TK Mirror). Technically you can do this with Hybrid as well, but Telekinetic will have an easier time due to the force regen.

The last two encounters in Denova are built for Chain Lightning and Telekinetic Wave. Hybrid and Balance AOE capabilities are nothing compared to what a good TK Sage can lay down. Force in Balance is mediocre AOE and without the force regen it will be hard to spam Forcequake.

Overall its up to you. Like I said I play Lightning through Denova and love it. I love the playstyle and love the damage I can do with it.

There is a learning curve to it though. I've tried teaching Lightning/TK to two other Sorcerers. One found it extremely difficult and couldn't get it (and subsequently found himself doing better with Balance/Madness). The other is slowly getting it but still working on it. They tell me the rotation is difficult to pick up, but I can do it with my eyes closed having played it for so long. So beware of that if you don't have experience with the specc.

Ultimately my advice is play what you like because you'll have more fun and you'll probably be better at playing the specc anyway.
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

eventidephoenix's Avatar


eventidephoenix
06.17.2012 , 12:28 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by pureeffinmetal View Post
All 3 specc's TK/Balance/Hybrid should be within 1% of each other when you are talking single target, tank and spank DPS. With Hybrid winning, Balance coming in second, and TK last.

Emphasis on single target. This will includes most of the T1 Operation Encounters and most importantly the Operation Dummy.

However as a Lightning Sorcerer I can tell you, Denova will favor a Telekinetic build so much its almost as if the Operation wad designed for us.

The first two bosses have two mobs. DoT both, enjoy the increased procc's of Lightning Barrage (Forget the TK Mirror). Technically you can do this with Hybrid as well, but Telekinetic will have an easier time due to the force regen.

The last two encounters in Denova are built for Chain Lightning and Telekinetic Wave. Hybrid and Balance AOE capabilities are nothing compared to what a good TK Sage can lay down. Force in Balance is mediocre AOE and without the force regen it will be hard to spam Forcequake.

Overall its up to you. Like I said I play Lightning through Denova and love it. I love the playstyle and love the damage I can do with it.

There is a learning curve to it though. I've tried teaching Lightning/TK to two other Sorcerers. One found it extremely difficult and couldn't get it (and subsequently found himself doing better with Balance/Madness). The other is slowly getting it but still working on it. They tell me the rotation is difficult to pick up, but I can do it with my eyes closed having played it for so long. So beware of that if you don't have experience with the specc.

Ultimately my advice is play what you like because you'll have more fun and you'll probably be better at playing the specc anyway.
Well said. TK has a steeper learning curve. I took about a week to get used to it, and now I love it for Denova.

One important point... it dishes 1% less damage than the other builds BUT it's a hell lot more fun and less boring than pebble spamming... TK sages will have to agree with me on this

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
06.17.2012 , 12:50 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by eventidephoenix View Post
Well said. TK has a steeper learning curve. I took about a week to get used to it, and now I love it for Denova.

One important point... it dishes 1% less damage than the other builds BUT it's a hell lot more fun and less boring than pebble spamming... TK sages will have to agree with me on this
I completely agree. Balance and Hybrid rotations are very stale and non-engaging.
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

Ewgal's Avatar


Ewgal
06.17.2012 , 09:52 AM | #5
Well, it is clear that you really love TK/lightning and that is all well and good, but I think you are being a bit unrealistic.

Quote: Originally Posted by pureeffinmetal View Post
All 3 specc's TK/Balance/Hybrid should be within 1% of each other when you are talking single target, tank and spank DPS. With Hybrid winning, Balance coming in second, and TK last.

Does hybrid really win after double dipping was fixed?

Emphasis on single target. This will includes most of the T1 Operation Encounters and most importantly the Operation Dummy.

EV perhaps, but KP is similar to EC.

However as a Lightning Sorcerer I can tell you, Denova will favor a Telekinetic build so much its almost as if the Operation wad designed for us.

Not really, any of the Sage/Sorc builds can do well here in HM if in good gear.

The first two bosses have two mobs. DoT both, enjoy the increased procc's of Lightning Barrage (Forget the TK Mirror). Technically you can do this with Hybrid as well, but Telekinetic will have an easier time due to the force regen.

Balance Sage will end up having overlapping DoTs on Zorn/Toth (since with talents they have weaken mind and sever force at 16sec).


The last two encounters in Denova are built for Chain Lightning and Telekinetic Wave. Hybrid and Balance AOE capabilities are nothing compared to what a good TK Sage can lay down. Force in Balance is mediocre AOE and without the force regen it will be hard to spam Forcequake.

Forcequake + FiB is fine, and works well since FiB is instant, while TK wave aint anymore.

Overall its up to you. Like I said I play Lightning through Denova and love it. I love the playstyle and love the damage I can do with it.

I think players can play what they want.

There is a learning curve to it though. I've tried teaching Lightning/TK to two other Sorcerers. One found it extremely difficult and couldn't get it (and subsequently found himself doing better with Balance/Madness). The other is slowly getting it but still working on it. They tell me the rotation is difficult to pick up, but I can do it with my eyes closed having played it for so long. So beware of that if you don't have experience with the specc.

Maybe you could simply post your exact rotation here?

Ultimately my advice is play what you like because you'll have more fun and you'll probably be better at playing the specc anyway.
There is a gear curve with EC, especially HM, but once you get to mainly BH/campaign level gear then you will find that TK (lightning)/TK hybrid/ Balance (madness) builds can all work out here, though they do different things (and different types of dmg).
May the farce be with you

elvavwiel's Avatar


elvavwiel
06.17.2012 , 12:34 PM | #6
As with all 'new builds' you try out you have to get used to using them, but to be honest, all 3 builds are easy compared to the other classes i''ve tried.

Having to roll telekinetics for doing well at denova is just wrong, i havent done hybrid since the change, but i can reassure you that telekinetics and balance both do equally well in there. While you could argue that 'telekinetics' would do better because of its aoe ability, Telkinetic Wave only hits 5 targets, and the instant proc only happens once every 10 seconds. The main benefit tk has is that it doesn't run out of force easily (which actually makes it a lot more 'brainless' then balance).

All builds boil down to a 1-6 execution chain though, which is a lot easier then some of the other classes out there.
Main rule of thumb is to play what you're comfortable with, feel free to experiment and all, but when necessary just do what you're best at.
Isra ~ 55 Sage: Jack of all trades, master of none.

Ximix's Avatar


Ximix
06.17.2012 , 01:19 PM | #7
The answer will also depend on what you're doing. If you're doing PvP then Balance is the way to go because it not only has alright DPS and CC but you'll also be far more mobile. If you're doing PvE then you can try out TK/Hybrid since you won't be forced to constantly be moving.
Hello I'm an ex-WAR player and I approve of collision detection

Akyio's Avatar


Akyio
06.17.2012 , 04:08 PM | #8
balance for pvp, tele for pve probably.
im balance on pvp, also can do tele/balance hybrid, works well also.
i wish i can someow see telekinetics improved in pvp, but it is really so useless unless in those rare situation where nobody notices you and you can stand like a turret and spam those long-time casts

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
06.17.2012 , 04:10 PM | #9
Quote:
Does hybrid really win after double dipping was fixed?
Yes. But like I said its a 1% difference. You're talking 10-20 DPS here.

Quote:
EV perhaps, but KP is similar to EC.
I do not find KP and EC similar at all. The only similarity is each operation has a puzzle boss. Otherwise 3/5 fights in KP are tank and spank fights with no real mechanics.

Quote:
Not really, any of the Sage/Sorc builds can do well here in HM if in good gear.
In my experience I've beaten the other builds.

Quote:
Balance Sage will end up having overlapping DoTs on Zorn/Toth (since with talents they have weaken mind and sever force at 16sec).
Yes you can double Weaken Mind with Zorn/Toth. But Sever Force lasts 18 seconds and has a CD of 9 seconds. Furthermore have you actually tried to keep DoTs on two mobs with Balance? I have with Madness. Its very force intensive. The second you start having to using Consumption / NS - you've all ready started reducing your DPS.

Quote:
Forcequake + FiB is fine, and works well since FiB is instant, while TK wave aint anymore.
TK Wave > FiB. Not even close. FiB hits 3 targets. TK Wave hits 5. Furthermore Balance's force regeneration cannot support many uses of Forcequake.

I've had a CL Procc up after the first Walker Burn Phase, and been able to CL > Force Storm > CL the first adds. No Balance of Hybrid Sage will ever beat a TK Sage's AoE as the game stands right now.

Quote:
Maybe you could simply post your exact rotation here?
Weaken Mind *includes multi-targets
Turbulence
Mind Crush
TK Throw (procc only)
TK Wave (procc only)
Disturbance
Project *moving only
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

Ewgal's Avatar


Ewgal
06.17.2012 , 11:20 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by pureeffinmetal View Post
Furthermore have you actually tried to keep DoTs on two mobs with Balance? I have with Madness. Its very force intensive. The second you start having to using Consumption / NS - you've all ready started reducing your DPS.
For DoTs force management shouldn't be a problem running balance/madness. If' you're talking Toth and Zorn I'd worry if you were in a group where the dps was so low that you actually needed to keep DoTs on both bosses as that encounter is really just a gear check in HM and in story mode even easier. For Balance due to the longer DoTs you end up overlapping on them no matter what you do.

Quote: Originally Posted by pureeffinmetal View Post
TK Wave > FiB. Not even close. FiB hits 3 targets. TK Wave hits 5. Furthermore Balance's force regeneration cannot support many uses of Forcequake.
There aren't really many occasions where you actually need to multi-spam force quake. On Kephess for example in a reasonably geared group the other dps, e.g. gunslinger/commando, uses their AoE on the mob packs at the same time so hard to imagine you'd ever need to do more than 1 FiB followed by 1 force quake per pack. Most of Kephess is single target, so by your logic hybrid/balance works out best for most of it.

Quote: Originally Posted by pureeffinmetal View Post
I've had a CL Procc up after the first Walker Burn Phase, and been able to CL > Force Storm > CL the first adds. No Balance of Hybrid Sage will ever beat a TK Sage's AoE as the game stands right now.
There isn't that much AoE needed in any Ops, either EV, EC, or KP. That's why they are all a bit similar in a way, on three bosses you need to cast the occasional AoE, but there isn't a really intensive AoE encounter so not critical to have AoE build. Balance does just fine having to put up the odd force quake over a boss encounter.

I have to write that to be honest with you once you get to mainly BH/campaign level gear any Sage build will work out alright in EC.
May the farce be with you