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Please Rethink Changing Project Animation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Please Rethink Changing Project Animation

Sabbatine's Avatar


Sabbatine
06.17.2012 , 02:50 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Liquid_Drano View Post
I understand. People want Project and Shock to be equal, but the change is one of the few times that I'd say keep the animation over shortening the length. Why not lengthen Shock than? The new Lacerate for Ops is AWESOME, exactly what I was looking for, but this seriously doesn't look like much is happening with the animation. Removing one of the best animations in the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94RhUCyXoYs
Best animations in the game? I don't think so. If we were teaching classes at the academy the project animation might be good, but we aren't. We are fighting... and you know what you shouldn't do while fighting? Reveal your plan of attack before using it.

The old project animation has you pulling something out of the ground and then holding it up in front of your opponent so he or she can get a good look, and then you fling it at them... this is about as far from good as you can get. We aren't teaching younglings how to use the force, we are in a fight for our lives. The new animation isn't perfect but at least it makes sense... it's faster, and your often hitting the enemy from outside his or her line of sight.
"I cried when I was born and every day shows why."

Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
06.17.2012 , 11:06 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Sabbatine View Post
Best animations in the game? I don't think so. If we were teaching classes at the academy the project animation might be good, but we aren't. We are fighting... and you know what you shouldn't do while fighting? Reveal your plan of attack before using it.

The old project animation has you pulling something out of the ground and then holding it up in front of your opponent so he or she can get a good look, and then you fling it at them... this is about as far from good as you can get. We aren't teaching younglings how to use the force, we are in a fight for our lives. The new animation isn't perfect but at least it makes sense... it's faster, and your often hitting the enemy from outside his or her line of sight.
As long as you are conjuring something and throwing it, it will always be "off" for an instant skill. The problems with the new project are simple, and almost as many as the old project. The magic conjuring is ridiculous. The conjured items are ignorant of their environment. The junk you see isnt the junk your opponent see coming at them, since each client has different random rolls on the random chunk-a-junk table. And, at the end of the day, jedi arent junk tossers. It trivializes the class and makes it a comic relief joke with the junk, rocks and pebbles.

There are four better options already in the game....Saber throw. Force burst (Raina). Force burst (Ashara). Force Tremor (Kira). All are truly instant. All look good. All are independent of there environment. All are more jedi in their look and feel than junk tossing.
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

Helig's Avatar


Helig
06.18.2012 , 06:47 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyvim View Post
"Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer):
There are some notable exceptions to this that are real delays and real discrepancies that we're aware of and are addressing. In the case of Shock and Project, there is a real delay (on the server) before Project deals its damage."
http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-...e-update-1.3#h
Pretty much the point of my post is bolded. The main reason for the whole heated discussion isn't the fact that Project isn't actually instant cast and instant hit - it's the fact that it's supposed mirror, Shock, *is* lightning-fast (bad pun intended).

Bottomline, I think all "instant casts" should have a slight delay before connecting, if only to make them equal. Even instant-travel skills often have a small "pre-animation". Can't see why Shock can't have something like that, while Project animation speed gets increased (but not cut, like in 1.3).

That said, I have nothing against Force Burst animation - and I'd rather have the full Project animation, perhaps on a cast-time skill.
Quote:
Really? When a shadow is using particle acceleration plus force potency and you see two rocks coming out of the ground at you, if you dont use it, you're silly.
Not efficient for the main classes I play, but I suppose I can see where you're coming from.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Sabbatine's Avatar


Sabbatine
06.18.2012 , 06:11 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyvim View Post
The junk you see isnt the junk your opponent see coming at them, since each client has different random rolls on the random chunk-a-junk table. And, at the end of the day, jedi arent junk tossers. It trivializes the class and makes it a comic relief joke with the junk, rocks and pebbles.
This has about as much to do with the actual topic of my post as a picture of a cat drinking orange juice, but I'll address it.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the situation is this:

We have an animation for project that not only looks horrible for an attack you'd use in combat, but is actually inferior to our mirror classes version. We have a new animation that looks far more practical and while it still has the same problems aesthetically, it doesn't have them mechanically which is a step in the right direction.

Actually, there is one thing I disagree with you on. At the end of the day Jedi are junk tossers. In the books, in the movies, in the video games. It's a matter of efficiency. It requires less effort and energy to throw something at someone than to create enough kinetic energy with the force alone to simulate being struck by a solid object. Same applies to Sith and their lightning, they generate the energy and then create a path of least resistance letting physics do some of the work for them.

I am against changing the animation to portray something like a jedi manifesting pure energy or some such nonsense but I could see a compromise in the form of some sort of carried ammunition. If a jedi knows he or she will be using kinetic based attacks in a fight would they really enter into said fight with the assumption that there will be an unlimited supply of things to rip apart and throw around? Maybe, but I prefer to think they'd be smart enough to bring an actual weapon.

The lightsaber could fill this role, but I think that they are wanting to keep the style of each class unique (ie not giving every jedi a saber throw). They could remove the randomness from the animation by simply having an alternative source for the ammunition, namely the jedi her or himself. I don't care what form it comes in, but ultra dense metal slugs (to resist lightsaber parries) or some other specialty ammunition that is assumed to be carried by the consular would work just fine.
"I cried when I was born and every day shows why."

Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
06.18.2012 , 11:59 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Sabbatine View Post
This has about as much to do with the actual topic of my post as a picture of a cat drinking orange juice, but I'll address it.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the situation is this:

We have an animation for project that not only looks horrible for an attack you'd use in combat, but is actually inferior to our mirror classes version. We have a new animation that looks far more practical and while it still has the same problems aesthetically, it doesn't have them mechanically which is a step in the right direction.

Actually, there is one thing I disagree with you on. At the end of the day Jedi are junk tossers. In the books, in the movies, in the video games. It's a matter of efficiency. It requires less effort and energy to throw something at someone than to create enough kinetic energy with the force alone to simulate being struck by a solid object. Same applies to Sith and their lightning, they generate the energy and then create a path of least resistance letting physics do some of the work for them.

I am against changing the animation to portray something like a jedi manifesting pure energy or some such nonsense but I could see a compromise in the form of some sort of carried ammunition. If a jedi knows he or she will be using kinetic based attacks in a fight would they really enter into said fight with the assumption that there will be an unlimited supply of things to rip apart and throw around? Maybe, but I prefer to think they'd be smart enough to bring an actual weapon.

The lightsaber could fill this role, but I think that they are wanting to keep the style of each class unique (ie not giving every jedi a saber throw). They could remove the randomness from the animation by simply having an alternative source for the ammunition, namely the jedi her or himself. I don't care what form it comes in, but ultra dense metal slugs (to resist lightsaber parries) or some other specialty ammunition that is assumed to be carried by the consular would work just fine.
Hi. Speeding it up is an improvement, on that we agree. But I will say it again...As long as you are conjuring something and throwing it, it will always be "off" for an instant skill. The problems with the new project are simple, and almost as many as the old project.

There also seems to be some disagreement about how much of the delay has been removed. But personally I am not sure of that. The idea of a jedi carrying ammunition is totally foreign. Also, your aversion to force push style affects is completely unwarranted. Count how many times in the movies jedi use a form of force push. It is by FAR their most frequently used ranged attack. Obi Wan uses it. Yoda uses it. Qui Gon. Various jedi in the battle of geonosis, etc. How many times does a jedi throw a rock in six movies? NONE....lol. In addition, games like kotor 1 and 2 followed this obvious canon and based the main ranged jedi skills (light or neutral) off of force push and its variants.

The only way I could see them fixing the current animation, which should STILL be on the sith side, would be if they could manage to have it yank up an actual chunk of the terrain.
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

Oktaine's Avatar


Oktaine
06.19.2012 , 09:20 AM | #26
I have a 50 of both Assassin and Shadow. It's not that either is broken they both work fine, just not the same and I don't see what the problem is with a little difference in the classes. Out of hundreds and hundreds of pvp matches I've had someone stealth out of a project hit maybe twice. It's just not that big of a deal.
Oktaine - Shadow
Krockett - Scrapper
Jedi Covenant

Tfranco's Avatar


Tfranco
06.19.2012 , 09:33 AM | #27
It's in the patch notes it will happen end of story. Bw won't change it cuz u don't like it, honestly it still feels ans SOUNDS pretty powerful IMO. Quit qqing bout things out of ur control.
Lord Deseranda - Sorc, Fwuffygunz - Merc, Slugshot - Vanguard, Jevelda - Guardian

Wassawp's Avatar


Wassawp
06.22.2012 , 03:43 AM | #28
The current project system is often seen as a disadvantage over Shock, which isn't exactly right.
The delay from Project allows the global cooldown to end before the damages to apply. It allows to use another spell just after, providing more instant burst.

So it wasn't exactly mirrored, but it was still fine. The QQ from the first days were over, and there was no real need to change it.

Naxy's Avatar


Naxy
06.22.2012 , 12:38 PM | #29
That is a sad looking animation. At least leave the old animation in PvE. The new one is pretty uninspiring and combined with the rain of pebbles the consular attack tools look pretty pathetic.

Rykrai's Avatar


Rykrai
06.22.2012 , 05:54 PM | #30
I totally agree.

This is a terrible solution to project. Whoever did this should be shot. This animation is so bad it should not have even made it to the test server. Who does quality control?

Possible solutions:

A far better solution would be to lengthen the Sorc's version. You could have them charge electricity in their hands for half a sec. They would look cooler and it would be equal.

Or change the animation completely. Eg like using the force to pound and stagger the target. Animated well, it would look like it really hurts and the effects can then be instant.

This is a CHEAP, NASTY and LAZY solution by bioware. If this is the tone for improving Swtor in the future, then Swtor is dead. Its screwing sages twice over for not rolling sorc.