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MMO's and the players duty

Novamonkey's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:25 PM | #1
There are many things about this game that did not live up to what I was expecting but there are still many things that have far exceeded what I was expecting. There is a lot of hate being thrown at Bioware in regards to what they didnt do with the game and so on.. I would like to offer an alternative outlook on this that might help change some people's outlook on the future of this game.

A developer can only provide the structure of a game but it is the player base that creates the living breathing in game world. I came from old School MMO's like EQ and SWG where the graphic engines were fairly poor but the sense of community was what made the game thrive. Alot of people in this game have come to expect that certain things should require no effort at all such as finding a group. Well in SWG there was no group finder except general chat and let me tell you the groups formed by those means were much more spontaneous and formed much stronger bonds with other players then any automated group finder will ever do.

I wish that all the old school gamers would remember what we had to do to make a game great back in the day and all the newer gamers would stop demanding things be thrown into a game right from launch that as history has shown are really not needed to make a game great. Community and really knowing those on your server is what makes an MMO Thrive...

I know that up until recent server xfers most servers have been barely able to have anything that resembles a community but as we start to see more Heavy and Very Heavy servers I hope that these newly formed communities can stop throwing knives at Bioware and start making the game what they want it to be by building an in game world they want by interacting with the others playing

Zatada's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:29 PM | #2
Nice post and I agree the game will only be as good as the player base makes it !
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Ngamok's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:30 PM | #3
Mith Marr EQ player here. And yes, you HAD to group to do most things in EQ unless you were a druid and could quad kite stuff. I guess Bards could do it too, lol.

But yea, since I have come from EQ > SWG > WoW and many other games in between too numerous to list, I know how it feels to find people to do stuff with. The MMO crowd now is the I WANT IT NOW crowd.
Ngamok 65 Vanguard / Cygamok 65 Gunslinger / Linovahle 65 Sentinel / Gamok 65 Commando / Ngamokus 65 Operative / Janylyn 65 Shadow / Jan'mar 65 Sith Inquisitor - The Harbinger

Skidrowbro's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:34 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Ngamok View Post
Mith Marr EQ player here. And yes, you HAD to group to do most things in EQ unless you were a druid and could quad kite stuff. I guess Bards could do it too, lol.

But yea, since I have come from EQ > SWG > WoW and many other games in between too numerous to list, I know how it feels to find people to do stuff with. The MMO crowd now is the I WANT IT NOW crowd.
It's not the "I want it now", it's more along the lines of "I don't want to work for it" crowd.

Bluerodian's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:38 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Skidrowbro View Post
It's not the "I want it now", it's more along the lines of "I don't want to work for it" crowd.
I'm going to have to agree with this assessment. Unfortunatly I think the breakdown in strong community ties is a symptom of the EZ mode content that has been becoming the norm in more modern MMOs. I started on Tunare in EQ when Kunark was brand new and moved on from there so I'm in the same boat as the OP.

It's a vastly different landscape now than noobing it up in Field of Bone on a shaman in a group of five or more other newbies grinding on Scorpions and having a good time.

I think it's just a sign of the times though. The old school player mentality has gone well out of style.
Long time player of SWG from cradle to grave. First Kettemoor, then Starsider.

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SarinTabun's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:39 PM | #6
i agree completely. I never played EQ but SWG was my first MMO and it holds a special place in my heart. I still talk to friends that I made in that game. The biggest issue with the MMO community in this day and age is one that was created and fostered by the popularity of WOW. Prior to the x-server LFG tool the community in WOW was pretty decent. Once the x-server stuff happened it made everyone an anonymous cog in the group just to get the dungeon completed. Which allowed people to be d-bags because the likelihood of you seeing them again was and extremely low percentage.

I love that BW is staying away from X-server stuff at the moment. Since the LFG tool is only going to be for your server I think it's going to facilitate the community on each server. I look forward to the new server transfer/merge, the larger population cap and the server LFG tool coming.

Shingara's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:41 PM | #7
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, give the man a rod and he will beat you to death with it and steal your fish. Sith proverb.

Point is devs need to take there time and make the stuff they put out good quality content, try and force the devs to rush things and you get shody work. patience is what is required on most cases.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
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MR_FETT's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:42 PM | #8
I agree and have always thought this.
I started MMO'ing with UO. The sense of community on that game just gets me misty eyed now. I dont think we will ever get back to that. The trouble is the players are so spoiled these days and they dont even know it, thats the sad thing. They want everything instant or they threat they will cancel their subscription.
I remember when they added the LFG tool to WoW. Yes it did help finding a group, but with it lost all communication with the players as nobody bothered. I mean you didn't even have to meet up and find the instance anymore.

Everyone cried out these days that they want this NOW and FIX THIS! but when i look back at UO, other than being a fantastic sandbox mmo it was pretty rubbish in terms of content and updates! what made is so special was the players and the sense of community it gave, and only we can do that, not Bioware.
"Always a pleasure to meet a jedi..."

trussasp's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:47 PM | #9
Hi OP:

While I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it, it sounds like you are at least touching upon role playing, yes?

While that's well and good, and certainly CAN add to a game experience, I would respectfully say that the majority of MMO players (SWTOR is at least advertised as an MMO) do not want to partake in that, generally speaking.

Nothing wrong with it, it's just, speaking for myself only, not what I'm looking for.

And on that note, I've read plenty of posts from role players, indicating that this game is lacking a very many basic things which would make the game more immersive. Things that have been around for a very long time in much older games, (just a few examples...) weather cycles, more environmental noises, music, clickable objects, etc etc.

And the design of the game is such that it basically eliminates organic open world PvP, which for me, and apparently many others, is a very large drawback. You never see players of the other faction.

I'm not even touching on content, or endgame content, etc. (but this was huge for many of those who are already gone, so it is difficult to just leave that out)

So, while the player himself can indeed role play, or flesh out events and things, such as have occurred on a few (generally RP) servers at this point...

In a game that cost ~$300 million to make, should the onus REALLY be on the player himself?

Shouldn't there at least be some things designed into said game to at the very least encourage this?

Not to be mean, but no matter how much you love this game, clearly, it is lacking in many things, and in every aspect, MMO, role playing, story, end game content, open world PvP.

Because, you can role play with a sock puppet, but it's 2012, and this game is way LESS immersive than games which were made 10 years ago, or more.

damdragon's Avatar

06.14.2012 , 02:50 PM | #10
I find it funny that the OP mentioned SWG, I to played that game and adored the community aspect of the game.

I do not agree on your conclusion that bioware should be given slack and the community needs to pick up the ball. SWG was a game built from the ground up, around being a community game. To just name a few examples. Mastering a profession required you to train / mentor other players, had to go to a cantina and pay a dancer for certain buffs. Doctor buffs worked much the same way. And the biggest reason, player cities. These are all game design choices that allowed and even rewarded players for building / participating in a community.

SWTOR has none of that. It's the same wowish style game revolving souly around endgame gear and dungeons. Not only that but the ridiculously linear level designs left me as a player (playing on a PVP-RP server) to only find 1 republic enemy player the entire course of my leveling, this was immediately after launch.

Bioware developed a single player game with MMOish endgame. Building or supporting a community isn't going to solve the fundamental design flaws. Although it is the only way to attempt to delude ones self from these problems, into believing that this game is actually playable.