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Why Bounty Hunters are not viable in 1.2/1.3

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why Bounty Hunters are not viable in 1.2/1.3

Epiphany-Rising's Avatar


Epiphany-Rising
06.13.2012 , 08:59 AM | #1
This is a personal opinion based on over 5 months with a level 50 Bounty Hunter.

I've had a 50 BH Merc within weeks of the game starting and used to love the class.

I almost don't play it anymore.

Here are my reasons. Many of these have been echoed by others. In my last few days of game play before major surgery I just felt it important to note some of this down. I hope the people in Development get the message eventually as they just don't seem to be getting it so far.

#1: Inequality of AOE:
Bounty Hunters have the lowest radius AOE with the biggest problem with it. Knock back frequently knocks anything out of range of every additional hit if they were near the periphery of the AOE making it, effectively, useless in the case of Death From Above. Fusion Missile takes too long and costs too much (compared to Orbital Strike / Force Storm). Explosive Dart doesn't do enough damage.

For equality all AOE DPS should be:
Same size effected
Same base damage
Same cast time
Same interrupt status (Orb Strike, once cast can't be interrupted, Force Storm and DFA can be)
Same effect on standard and low level toons (Knock down, not back, equivalent of Stun)
Same cooldown

Explanation: Force Storm can be spammed pretty much forever at virtually zero cost to Sorcs. Give all AOE that ability or limit Force Storm. Give ALL AOE the same cooldown. Size wise give all AOE the same radius. Base Damage, give ALL AOE the same base damage (modified as appropriate by AIM/Tech/Power for us) so that all classes are on equal footing. Have the AOE duration be the same in all cases and have all AOE either be or not be uninterrupted (aka make it channeled or not, one way or the other for all). Just as other classes have low end AOE with limited targets effected we have explosive dart (Chain Lightning, Toxic Dart, etc.). Fusion missile takes too long to cast, has limited return, costs too much heat and effects limited targets compared to other choices. Either remove it or fix it so that it's comparable to other classes abilities (IA have more than one low level ability for example).

#2: Twelve Second Cooldown interrupt
Give us one. All other classes have it, we don't.

#3: Long fight viability:
Great strides have been made here to make us useful in a longer fight however more work needs to be done. My Sorcerer NEVER goes even remotely near out of force. Rarely goes below 85% and normally ends a fight at or near 100% even though I do a ton of damage (more than my Campaign/Black Hole geared Merc even though I'm mostly Rakata with a couple of Black Hole and Columi items on the Sorc, mostly because there is zero downtime as I never run out of resources).

#4: Respect:
It's almost like the Bounty Hunter story was an inconvenient afterthought. Like the class was created just so there would be four base classes not three. Compared to the IA storyline (and the Sorc and so far Warrior story line) ours pretty much blows. The IA Storyline is amazing in comparison. While our Damage was great pre 1.2 we were mostly just spamming Tracer a lot. Yes, rotation has improved but again it's like trying to kiss an amputation to make it better.

Everything I've seen in 1.3 does not address most of this with the exception of #3 above somewhat.

Healing:
Merc healing is a joke. Everything costs too much heat wise (other than rapid shot with the support canister freebie) or has too limited a return so it's next to impossible to heal an operation boss encounter that runs 5 minutes because you get maxed out heat wise too much. We are a tech class like IA ops so make us the equivalent of IA ops in healing because right now, we're nowhere close. Again, inconvenient afterthought. and total lack of respect.

Tanking:
As has been mentioned before other classes can leap or rush to a target. We can't. Other classes can both leap and pull, we can pull "sometimes". With 1.3 Powertech tanks will probably be very popular for many reasons but there are still many opportunities for improvement here.

It is my hope again that these comments both resonate with my fellow bounty hunters and inspire some changes from Bioware.

As always comments and opinions are welcome.

Huggsnotdruggs's Avatar


Huggsnotdruggs
06.13.2012 , 09:11 AM | #2
I couldn't disagree with you more. You want all classes to have the same everything? Your comments do not resonate with this trooper and I truly feel that if other class abilities are SOO appealing to you and you feel so gimped with our amazin capabilities.. just roll a sorc/sage nuff said take care

Quote: Originally Posted by X-Funk View Post
Things change, deal with it.
Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus View Post
Yeah bro, cuz objectives are for suckers. Wizards vs barbarians is where it's at
Quote: Originally Posted by iiell View Post
I suggest they make a new forum called, "The QQ Forum"

Epiphany-Rising's Avatar


Epiphany-Rising
06.13.2012 , 09:18 AM | #3
You misunderstand. Each class needs to bring it's own unique flavour (and I'm Canadian, we spell it that way) to the mix.

What I am saying is that some "iconic" abilities need to be equivalent to address balance issues.

AOE in particular and interrupts are the two biggies on the DPS side. In a long fight (aka Kep in EC) we're great for awhile and even with good heat management I still find that I'm about 20 seconds short frequently where I'm using Rapid shot, the occasional Tracer to refresh heat signatures with a free rail shot and that's about it until I can Vent again.

The game is just too unbalanced in some areas for my taste right now. Compared to many other classes Bounty Hunters are now like second class citizens in many runs.

Huggsnotdruggs's Avatar


Huggsnotdruggs
06.13.2012 , 09:26 AM | #4
I did come off a little agressive so I apologize for that but still, I do not agree with you. I couldnt be more satisfied with my tool box But if they came along and made improvements that you see fit, I wouldnt complain then either

Quote: Originally Posted by X-Funk View Post
Things change, deal with it.
Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus View Post
Yeah bro, cuz objectives are for suckers. Wizards vs barbarians is where it's at
Quote: Originally Posted by iiell View Post
I suggest they make a new forum called, "The QQ Forum"

cortea's Avatar


cortea
06.13.2012 , 09:48 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Epiphany-Rising View Post
For equality all AOE DPS should be:
Same
No. Every class should not be the same. That's the problem wow had for a while, they tried to make everything too similar in response to complaints just like yours. Accept there are differences.

And your AOE is better than operatives for short bursts due to the instant activation. It takes 6 seconds for the first tick of orbital strike to hit, and then two more ticks 3 seconds apart each. It hits hard, but it also has weakness which gets in the way in some operation encounters.

Quote:
#2: Twelve Second Cooldown interrupt
Give us one. All other classes have it, we don't.
Sure. Give up your knockback though. Operatives get the interrupt, but no knockback. Or you could give up your in combat cc (operatives don't get one). Or you could give up your heavy armor which no other ranged has, and even melee don't have it. or give up your target debuff. Get the idea? You have some stuff, other people have some different stuff.

#3: Long fight viability:
I didn't understand your point. Merc are balanced around sitting at optimal heat, giving you infinite longevity.

Quote:
Healing: operation boss encounter that runs 5 minutes because you get maxed out heat wise too much.
Er. I have no trouble healing hard mode ops on my alt BH healer. And there is no time limit on your healing. The heat management is the same as with dps, you need to stay in your sweet spot. While you can sometimes go into heat debt, doing so is a bad idea if you don't have a cooldown up to get out of it. BH aren't great aoe healers, or multi-target healers, but your aoe heal does boost other healers aoe healing, which is a fun synergy.

To me mercs, dps mercs at least, just need a small dps boost and fixes to arpen. The rest is working quite fine. I know people complain in pvp but I don't see it. Tho i heal in pvp (and love it, being almost invincible with a guard on me and uninterrupts on shields is simply amazing after playing an operative).

Pestulan's Avatar


Pestulan
06.13.2012 , 10:31 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by cortea View Post
Sure. Give up your knockback though. Operatives get the interrupt, but no knockback. Or you could give up your in combat cc (operatives don't get one). Or you could give up your heavy armor which no other ranged has, and even melee don't have it. or give up your target debuff. Get the idea? You have some stuff, other people have some different stuff.
Snipers have both. The problem is that (non-healing) Ops and Mercs are both a bit underwhelming.

BobaFaceroll's Avatar


BobaFaceroll
06.13.2012 , 12:48 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Epiphany-Rising View Post
Tanking:
As has been mentioned before other classes can leap or rush to a target. We can't. Other classes can both leap and pull, we can pull "sometimes". With 1.3 Powertech tanks will probably be very popular for many reasons but there are still many opportunities for improvement here.

It is my hope again that these comments both resonate with my fellow bounty hunters and inspire some changes from Bioware.

As always comments and opinions are welcome.
Since when can't Powertechs leap to a target? It's called Jet Charge.

I wouldn't complain if the cool down was shorter, but at least I have some ranged skills I can use on the move if I have to close distance the hard way.

Splaktar's Avatar


Splaktar
06.13.2012 , 04:49 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Epiphany-Rising View Post
#2: Twelve Second Cooldown interrupt
Give us one. All other classes have it, we don't.

#4: Respect:
It's almost like the Bounty Hunter story was an inconvenient afterthought. Like the class was created just so there would be four base classes not three. Compared to the IA storyline (and the Sorc and so far Warrior story line) ours pretty much blows. The IA Storyline is amazing in comparison. While our Damage was great pre 1.2 we were mostly just spamming Tracer a lot. Yes, rotation has improved but again it's like trying to kiss an amputation to make it better.

Healing:
Merc healing is a joke. Everything costs too much heat wise (other than rapid shot with the support canister freebie) or has too limited a return so it's next to impossible to heal an operation boss encounter that runs 5 minutes because you get maxed out heat wise too much. We are a tech class like IA ops so make us the equivalent of IA ops in healing because right now, we're nowhere close. Again, inconvenient afterthought. and total lack of respect.
I agree that #2 is a major issue, especially for me in PVE.

As for saying the BH story line 'blows', I have enjoyed it a lot and I'm on my 2nd run through it (now with a lvl 27 PT). I have not enjoyed the IA storyline nearly as much at lvl 37. I've also got a lvl 22 warrior and 22 inq and neither storyline has impressed me like the BH story did.

I haven't healed any instances since 1.2 came out. Pre-1.2, I had healed for over a month in OPs and FPs. So I can't comment on the current state of healing much beyond the fact that the nerfs caused me to stop healing and I haven't gone back yet.
Splaktar - Arsenal Mercenary [50] - Master Armormech (UT/Slicing)
Samas - Engineering Sniper [42] - Armstech (Scavenging/Investigation)
Pak'Cafan - Jedi Covenant

TrooperSev's Avatar


TrooperSev
06.14.2012 , 12:40 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Epiphany-Rising View Post
#1: Inequality of AOE:
#2: Twelve Second Cooldown interrupt
#3: Long fight viability:
#4: Respect:
Healing:
Tanking:
Point 1: Death from above is not the only aoe ability mercs have. If you never used sweeping blasters, shame on you. It is equivilant to force storm in terms of dmg and spammable. DFA is our hard hitting aoe and SB is our quick lighter dmg aoe. It's range is pretty decent, but not on par with storm's size. You can cast it twice and DFA once and still probably beat a full cast of Agent's Orbital Strike.

Point 2: I do agree with point 2. The reason Mercs didn't have an interrupt to begin with was because mercs had higher dmg output than other ranged classes. This is no longer the case. Either give us an interrupt or give us our dmg back.

Point 3: Not sure how you play, but I never have to worry about my heat unless I'm having to go way off my rotation. Even then, we have a get out of jail free card with the vent heat ability. The only time I have to fire rapid shots is if I'm moving and Eplosive dart, HSM, RS and overrides (gives next attack instant) is on cd.

Point 4: I personally like the BH storyline more than my agent's. I feel badas knowing that my toon is independent, yet is able to take down high value targets and effect the entire war on planets. What else would you have the bounty hunter do besides hunt? Be a bouncer at a cantina? Also, the Inquisitor story was kinda meh. After the first act it kinda just flattens until the end.

Healing: Again, you must not be managing your heat wisely. Our top healer in our 8 man is a merc. I've healed a few times on my merc and I've been able to heal whatever was needed.

Tanking: Powertech tanks have the ability to jump to a target. Just like Kaliyo (agent's comp) they can jetpack to a target within 30 meters. Also, PT tanks have more abilities than any other tank to attack at 30 meters. My assassin tank has one ability and I have to use a second ability just to add the 20 extra meters. The only attack that I know of for juggs is the saber throw.

All in all, I feel you need to do more research before you post. Run with other bounty hunters. Ask them how they set up their rotations. Find out what skills/mechanics you're not taking advantage of and apply them to your merc.

Edit: forgot to mention that flamethrower is also an aoe. That brings mercs to a total of 3 channeled aoes, explosive dart, and fusion missle all without having to use talent points.
Dark Helmet - "So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
06.14.2012 , 03:07 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by TrooperSev View Post
Point 1: If you never used sweeping blasters, shame on you. It is equivilant to force storm in terms of dmg and spammable.
What? Those two abilities aren't even close. Sweeping Blasters takes up 33% of a Merc's resources. Force Storm takes up 20% of a Sorc's resources and it does MORE damage. The only time I ever use Sweeping Blasters in PvP is if I am on CD for DFA, Flamethrower AND Fusion Missile and I need to cover a door/turret against planters. Which is to say I might use it once in 10 PvP matches.