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Toth & Zorn HM still overtuned.


xDementedx's Avatar


xDementedx
06.11.2012 , 07:23 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Lutese View Post
Not if they are on Toth.
The melee group on zorn will lose a lot of dps that the toth melee group will have to make up for. You actually need more dps as a melee group to get this done. I think that is what the OP is talking about.
GeorgZoeller: "If we ever reach the point where every class thinks they are completely balanced and everything is great, I'll take the red pill and unplug from the matrix."

Iceman_sith's Avatar


Iceman_sith
06.11.2012 , 07:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by xDementedx View Post
The melee group on zorn will lose a lot of dps that the toth melee group will have to make up for. You actually need more dps as a melee group to get this done. I think that is what the OP is talking about.
We have not actually hit an enrage timer in fighting this boss, I do not think we will, we are dying when the bosses are between 1-10% after the second ground spike phase. If people are hitting the enrage i feel their pain and once again, questions must be raised on if this fight should be a little easier, if it were at least people could get some loot for the next bosses.

I will say again, this was the hardest boss for us, on story we almost 1 shot all the others but it took us hours to kill this on story. I would love to try other bosses, I am sure we could down them, here is the problem with totally linear progress.

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
06.11.2012 , 07:30 AM | #23
I'm really sorry and don't want to sound like a dick, but if you're wiping on this in SM for hours you don't even deserve to get near the kill on HM...

Lutese's Avatar


Lutese
06.11.2012 , 07:33 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
Good god, if they have more than two melees your strategy won't work, stop nitpicking...
Correct this strat doesn't work with more than 2 mele.

I'M not the one who keeps adding conditions onto a statement until it is finally viable.
(cough) <pot meet kettle>

Granted, with 3 mele I don't see having DPS swap bosses working for a number of reasons. Do you put two mele on Toth and have one of them swap out with the 3rd on zorn when they get fearful?

Don't think I've read a "viable" Toth/Zorn strat which uses 3+ mele.

Do enlighten me.

Would love to know one.

nickoking's Avatar


nickoking
06.11.2012 , 07:33 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
I'm really sorry and don't want to sound like a dick, but if you're wiping on this in SM for hours you don't even deserve to get near the kill on HM...
that was back on our first run of the dungeon. all the other bosses are much easier than T+Z

Lutese's Avatar


Lutese
06.11.2012 , 07:35 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by xDementedx View Post
The melee group on zorn will lose a lot of dps that the toth melee group will have to make up for. You actually need more dps as a melee group to get this done. I think that is what the OP is talking about.
I don't see this fight working out (see above post) with more than 2 mele DPS.

But if the TWO mele DPS are always on Toth, and the tanks swap bosses and positions, then the mele group will never get fearful.
(as they are always on Toth and never even have to move)

Iceman_sith's Avatar


Iceman_sith
06.11.2012 , 07:37 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
I'm really sorry and don't want to sound like a dick, but if you're wiping on this in SM for hours you don't even deserve to get near the kill on HM...
Some people.... to make it clear.

When the patch with this raid first came out, we went in to EC, after a few hours we killed the first boss, then went on to 1 shot most of the rest.

Now days, we of course can clear EC story mode, with no wipes, in very minimal time. However it highlights the difficulty of Toth & Zorn, as a healer even now that we 1 shot it in story, it is the hardest for me to heal.

Seeing as we have full cleared SM, and Cleared all the other instanced on NM. The next natural step would be HM Toth & Zorn, and we can't kill it. It is the hardest boss we have encountered. I am positive we would be able to kill many of the bosses after Toth & Zorn on HM as if you know what your doing on some of them you can make the damage almost nothing.

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
06.11.2012 , 07:38 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Lutese View Post
Correct this strat doesn't work with more than 2 mele.

I'M not the one who keeps adding conditions onto a statement until it is finally viable.
(cough) <pot meet kettle>

Granted, with 3 mele I don't see having DPS swap bosses working for a number of reasons. Do you put two mele on Toth and have one of them swap out with the 3rd on zorn when they get fearful?

Don't think I've read a "viable" Toth/Zorn strat which uses 3+ mele.

Do enlighten me.

Would love to know one.
I do not add conditions until I'm right. Melee-heavy means more melee than range.
There's two ways to do it:
1 - assign one melee to swap
2 - let both DPS-duos swap

Quote: Originally Posted by nickoking View Post
that was back on our first run of the dungeon. all the other bosses are much easier than T+Z
Iceman said something different to which I was referring:

Quote: Originally Posted by Iceman_sith View Post
There is no debate, we are experienced raiders, and have had ZERO problems with killing everything in the game up until this point, now we are totally stuck.

We still find this boss the hardest on story mode. We wipe on it more than any other boss, we have done 100 different strats and have got very close many many times, even if we do kill it. It is still over tuned. We are also suffering because we have two Sage healers. But it is not right to make us change, flat out isn't.

Iceman_sith's Avatar


Iceman_sith
06.11.2012 , 07:43 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
I do not add conditions until I'm right. Melee-heavy means more melee than range.
There's two ways to do it:
1 - assign one melee to swap
2 - let both DPS-duos swap



Iceman said something different to which I was referring:
When I say it is the hardest on Story we 1 shot it, but it puts the biggest strain on our healers.

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
06.11.2012 , 07:46 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Iceman_sith View Post
When I say it is the hardest on Story we 1 shot it, but it puts the biggest strain on our healers.
If you haven't noticed by now:
The first boss of every Op so far is the gear-check (and finally a skill-check aswell).