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Toth & Zorn HM still overtuned.

TheRealCandyMan's Avatar

06.25.2012 , 09:21 AM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Blackhole commendations will help gear you up to do HM Toth & Zorn..... You can get them from Blackhole Weekly, Lost Island - Kaon weekly and Story mode Denova... Although it's a slow process this way...

What they should of done was have the bosses in Story mode drop Blackhole Gear instead of Rakta gear.... Would make for a more natural progression then the way they did it... We don't need a 3rd OP's that drops Rakata, we can get that easily from HM EV and KP...

That said most of the new content seems to be for range DPS, it seems like Melee DPS are getting the shaft including HM Lost Island with the first Robot boss.... You could easily take Toth and Zorn down with 4 Gunslingers DPS'ing from 35m out.... It's just bad mechanics design on Biowares side... They need to come up with another way to make stuff hard without gimping certain classes....

With all that said you can take Toth and Zorn with Melee DPS in HM, you just have to run it PERFECTLY... We killed Toth and had Zorn down to 2% health when we wiped.. It's a pain at 10% because the red circles, environmental damage and all their other tricks are used for that last part of the fight... it's rather brutal
EV and KP drop rakata on hard mode
EC drops it on story mode

What's the problem?

Shouei's Avatar

06.25.2012 , 09:59 AM | #112
my god crying over a operation hm denova is not for the faint of heart. Obviously you wanna have a variety of dps not just all melee dps that's just plain and simple stupid. Your melee dps would take to much aoe damage if you ran 4 melee dps the healers cant and wont keep up with that. Bio-ware made operations bosses to be a challenge they don't want everyone farming their bosses no they wanna put a strain on the good raiders. The way i look at it is you want them to lower the operation bosses because its too hard for you. If its to hard for you try something else btw cleared hm denova 4 times in a row going for 5th on Tuesday so its not impossible you just have to know your group make up and stop trying to bring all melee dps.

Justcae's Avatar

06.25.2012 , 04:16 PM | #113
If you bring 4 melee (as stated in this thread earlier) they just have to switch @ the right percentages. All of T&Z's abilities are tied to percentages. If you took time learning what percentages you needed to watch out for rather than just repeat the same mistakes over and over and expect the different results you'd probably progress.

Raencloud's Avatar

06.25.2012 , 07:05 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by Iceman_sith View Post
I made a post about this several weeks ago. We are still stuck on Toth & Zorn HM, and at this point we are tired of operations, we will probably quit operations, in tern quit the game. If you can't keep me playing swtor you wont keep anyone I am a one eyed Star Wars fan boy who loves raiding and pvp.

-Project takes so long to deal damage it hits after Toth & Zorn Jump and so our Tank gets 1 shot.
-No gear step up. We can not improve our gear to aid us in the fight. It is the first boss.
-The boss has no hard to mechanics, it is simply lazy stack it with heaps of damage to make it hard.
- It favors a raid with as little to no melee as possible COME ON! that is just stupid, i am so angry right now, being forced to change our entire raid makeup recruit new players and force friends out of our operation because we can't progress.

I WANT a response to this post, I have posted support, twitter and made several posts on these forums. I can't get any information no one cares. At this point, there is nothing we can do.
The only legitimate problem you listed is the first part about your tanking getting 1 shot, and the problem isn't the encounter - it's your raid.

I assume by "project takes so long" you mean the boulder hurl to remove Toth's Berzerk. If you haven't realized by now, Toth's jump is HP based - and he jumps at 90% and then every 20% following that (i.e. 70%, 50%, 30%, and 10%). Note that this trigger is from either boss's HP, so it happens whenever the first one reaches one of the thresholds. You need to make sure you are balancing your dps so that one isn't significantly lower than the other. If you are still doing too much DPS (which you will, especially if your players are good and as you get better gear), you need to stop DPS to wait for the rock to be thrown. I suggest a 2-3% buffer to make sure DoTs don't tick him over.

Second, as for the tank getting 1 shot - even without the berzerk this still does a LOT of damage. This is one of the most dangerous parts of the fight, and generally a good idea for your Zorn tank to have a cooldown ready. Note that Toth's tank will take 0 damage, because Toth jumps away from him to the Zorn tank. The Zorn tank is the one in danger, and he's the one that should pop a cooldown. A Shadow/Assassin can use Force Shroud to block this damage on every jump (and if they don't they will probably be risking death every time). Powertechs and Juggernauts can use their DR cooldowns to reduce the damage. Even though they are on longer cooldowns, you should remember that they only need the cooldown for every other jump (when they are tanking Zorn). One tank will eat 3 jumps, while the other eats 2. If you have an Assassin/Shadow tank, it's probably a good idea to let them start on Zorn so they eat 3 jumps during the fight.

Edit- As for melee. There are 2 mechanics to watch for. First, when your melee are fighting Toth they will be eating a significant amount of damage from the Smash. It's not a danger to kill them by any stretch, and they can eat 3-4 without dieing, but it is extra healing required that some range dps may be able to out range. If healing gets tight, your melee can back out if needed. They should, however, definitely back out during the Berzerk phase's Ground Slams on Toth. You can time these and continue dpsing between slams. As soon as you see the global that he's berzerking, run out immediately because he does a Ground Slam a couple seconds in. After that you can DPS for about 10-15 seconds before the next one.

The other mechanics is the Toth jump transition. When you're melee are dpsing Zorn, they MUST run away at the transition or the jump will kill them. This isn't really an issue because either you're DPS are swapping (due to Fearful) anyway, or they are running far enough away that they don't get Fearful and thus don't need to swap. Either way they have to run away from Zorn.