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Toth & Zorn HM still overtuned.


Iceman_sith's Avatar


Iceman_sith
06.11.2012 , 06:32 AM | #1
I made a post about this several weeks ago. We are still stuck on Toth & Zorn HM, and at this point we are tired of operations, we will probably quit operations, in tern quit the game. If you can't keep me playing swtor you wont keep anyone I am a one eyed Star Wars fan boy who loves raiding and pvp.

PROBLEMS
-Project takes so long to deal damage it hits after Toth & Zorn Jump and so our Tank gets 1 shot.
-No gear step up. We can not improve our gear to aid us in the fight. It is the first boss.
-The boss has no hard to mechanics, it is simply lazy stack it with heaps of damage to make it hard.
- It favors a raid with as little to no melee as possible COME ON! that is just stupid, i am so angry right now, being forced to change our entire raid makeup recruit new players and force friends out of our operation because we can't progress.

I WANT a response to this post, I have posted support, twitter and made several posts on these forums. I can't get any information no one cares. At this point, there is nothing we can do.

nickoking's Avatar


nickoking
06.11.2012 , 06:38 AM | #2
completely agree especially about the high damage numbers and group makeup. why are we punished because we wanna play with our friends and the majority of them play melee, its ridiculous. this rubbish was a big problem with raiding in wow, i really think Bioware would have seen these kinds of problems with the leading MMO and thought to themselves 'hmmm that stuff sucks, so lets get rid of it and have a better game to attract customers' but instead we pretty much just got wow reskinned with star wars. please fix these issues Bioware, make yours the superior game.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
06.11.2012 , 06:38 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Iceman_sith View Post
I made a post about this several weeks ago. We are still stuck on Toth & Zorn HM, and at this point we are tired of operations, we will probably quit operations, in tern quit the game. If you can't keep me playing swtor you wont keep anyone I am a one eyed Star Wars fan boy who loves raiding and pvp.

PROBLEMS
-Project takes so long to deal damage it hits after Toth & Zorn Jump and so our Tank gets 1 shot.
-No gear step up. We can not improve our gear to aid us in the fight. It is the first boss.
-The boss has no hard to mechanics, it is simply lazy stack it with heaps of damage to make it hard.
- It favors a raid with as little to no melee as possible COME ON! that is just stupid, i am so angry right now, being forced to change our entire raid makeup recruit new players and force friends out of our operation because we can't progress.

I WANT a response to this post, I have posted support, twitter and made several posts on these forums. I can't get any information no one cares. At this point, there is nothing we can do.
The very thing that helped to kill casual guilds in wow. Story mode should be story mode. Guilds that are strong should rip right through this. Guilds that are more casual, that are less intense should be able to take these two down in a matter of a raid or two.

Hard mode and nightmare are for guilds such as mine (small, but with very strong raiders). Story mode is for everyone else. If we see average guilds with this much frustration on story mode, there is a strong cause for concern.
May the Schwartz be with you....

SlmJmOSUMB's Avatar


SlmJmOSUMB
06.11.2012 , 06:41 AM | #4
T&Z is a very tough fight, but it is doable and with a significant melee group. We did it last night with only 4 ranged (in 16 man HM). It took us 7-8 wipes, but we did get it done. It is an extreme situational awareness fight and healers and tanks need to be on the ball continuously. Our raid has been working to get as many of us into Black Hole gear as possible and that seems to be helping our survivability on the whole.

I agree that T&Z could be made SLIGHTLY less bursty (really all the EC hard mode bosses) and it would still present a fun challenge but not be quite so frustrating to groups without absolutely perfect coordination or with rotating members from week to week.
Jimeson - 55 Sage, Burtik - 55 Sentinel, Katytyna - 55 Shadow
Jaggerjack - 55 Gunslinger,Timothir - 40 Vanguard
"The Greyheid Legacy" - Paradigm (Guild) - The Shadowlands

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
06.11.2012 , 06:44 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by nickoking View Post
completely agree especially about the high damage numbers and group makeup. why are we punished because we wanna play with our friends and the majority of them play melee, its ridiculous.
This is exactly what story mode is suppose to prevent.

Now, as I've stated, I do not believe that my guild will have any issue with this on story mode. We are slow moving, but strong raiders and we've just faced them last night (we cleared KP hard mode in two or three nights mostly based on time constraints). However, I have a deep concern regarding casual guilds that "play with friends" as that is, in reality, the backbone of a player base that will maintain for the long haul.

Give us "challenge" in hard mode, not story mode. Story mode is for friends and fun. If one gives people the option of replacing friends or doing content, the game will lose them. That would be most unfortunate.
May the Schwartz be with you....

SKYPATCH's Avatar


SKYPATCH
06.11.2012 , 06:44 AM | #6
Toth & Zorn HM overtuned?are u serious? Full rakata or almost full rakata should be enough for those bosses and sorry for the melee,but the perfect ops dps team is 3 ranged and 1 melee only. If u put the melee guy on Toth only, u will have no problems at all mate since he doesnt get the fearfull debuff on Zorn that being there would kill him very fast. And the rest is just simple. Just make sure u have the right people geared and use a PARSER to see everyones perfomance in the DPS department.

nickoking's Avatar


nickoking
06.11.2012 , 06:59 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by SKYPATCH View Post
Toth & Zorn HM overtuned?are u serious? Full rakata or almost full rakata should be enough for those bosses and sorry for the melee,but the perfect ops dps team is 3 ranged and 1 melee only. If u put the melee guy on Toth only, u will have no problems at all mate since he doesnt get the fearfull debuff on Zorn that being there would kill him very fast. And the rest is just simple. Just make sure u have the right people geared and use a PARSER to see everyones perfomance in the DPS department.
you really shouldnt have to have a specific dps makeup though. it should all be about bring the player not the class. you should never be punished for having too many melee, its very poor game design

Iceman_sith's Avatar


Iceman_sith
06.11.2012 , 07:07 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by nickoking View Post
you really shouldnt have to have a specific dps makeup though. it should all be about bring the player not the class. you should never be punished for having too many melee, its very poor game design
exactly the specific dps is rubbish, all the praise for this game allows you to play the mythos you want is ********, if we are forced to re roll and respec.

Iceman_sith's Avatar


Iceman_sith
06.11.2012 , 07:07 AM | #9
I will add, we are running an 8 man HM, 16 man is possibly totally different.

Lutese's Avatar


Lutese
06.11.2012 , 07:08 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Iceman_sith View Post

PROBLEMS
-No gear step up. We can not improve our gear to aid us in the fight. It is the first boss.
-The boss has no hard to mechanics, it is simply lazy stack it with heaps of damage to make it hard.
- It favors a raid with as little to no melee as possible COME ON! that is just stupid, i am so angry right now, being forced to change our entire raid makeup recruit new players and force friends out of our operation because we can't progress.
1. Black Hole gear and Campaign gear are both T61 pieces. If one rips out the armoring/mod/enhancements from Black Hole gear and put them into Rakata (or Columi/Tionesse for that matter) you end up with gear that is = to Campaign. (Slightly better imho because u can itemized it properly and the Campaign gear is itemized rather poorly) You can get (on average) one BH piece of Armor a week. Since 1.2 was released you have had more than enough time to get proper gear and be ready for HM EC.

2. The boss does have a Hard Mode mechanic. Did you not notice the Yellow (turns to purple) circle that gets put under a random player?

3. We have a mele group (2) and a ranged group(2). If you read up on the various strats, and your tanks don't mind a bit of leg work, it is totally viable to have 2 mele in that fight.


Denova Hard Mode is not easy (thank gawd).

It is a Heal check, DPS check, and a Tank check.

If your group is lacking in one of those areas HM Denova will for sure point it out.

It is also very unforgiving.

One mistake by a player can mean a wipe.

Try to imagine what Nightmare Mode Denova will be like.