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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
01.20.2013 , 12:49 AM | #5451
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
Yeah, honestly I just don't know exactly what kind of work goes into it and what kind of strings they need to pull to rework current companions. I know we've discussed a lot of different ideas before, like a way to "reset" companions. In one sense I think that wouldn't be too bad of an idea since it would allow people to go through it again without leveling from scratch, but then maybe that trivializes your decisions somewhat.
I have only finished the trooper story so far, but unless the other classes are radically different, decisions you make regarding your companions are already unimportant (from the moment they join in the case of Jaesa). All that they really affect are affection. And you can raise that with gifts to negate the fallout of any decision your companions did not like.

Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
01.20.2013 , 01:13 AM | #5452
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
blegh... more and more all that they said sounds like PR garbage to me, nothing more. What makes SGRs, so so so complicated that it'll take years of writing to make it "right" ? What makes writing SGRs such an uber monumental titanic endeavour as opposed to OGRs ? How is it that neutral lines, like the ones the game currently has for most of the romances, with little references to the PC's gender is ok, but only ok for OGRs ?

/rant over

(not aimed at you Kioma, I guess I'm just frustrated)
It is not the writing that is the problem it is the coding. Adding a second romance path for SGRAs to a companion requires to change the dialog tree quite alot.
As example one can bring up the mods for past Bioware games.
DA:O allowed SGRAs with some companions. In order that those romances could exist the dialog tree for all for LIs, even Morriganīs and Alistairīs who were planned as straight from the start, contains several romance and gender checks that happen independently so that it is rather easy to enable an SGRAs with Morrigan or Alistair, but since those two were planned as straight many romantic lines are wrong (a male human noble with an enabled Alistair romance ends up as queen of Ferelden, Morrigan will expect a female Warden to impregnate her, ...)
The complete straight cast of ME2 on the other hand does not have gender checks other to check at the end of the regular dialog if the PC has the correct gender to initiate a romance. If you trick this first gender ckeck the rest of the romance will play out, but treat the PC as the wrong sex the whole time. In most of the cases this leeds to ridiculous scenes (my favorite is MShep licking Thaneīs nose).

Considering the long time it takes for companion SGRAs to come to SW:ToR I think it is safe to assume that that the dialog in SW:ToR uses the ME2 mold so that a change will require to basically reprogram the whole thing from the start.

On the positive side since a dialog consist of little more than a few dialog lines, once they get added it should not be a big download so that all companions can be done at the same time.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.20.2013 , 01:34 AM | #5453
Quote: Originally Posted by Wittand View Post
It is not the writing that is the problem it is the coding. Adding a second romance path for SGRAs to a companion requires to change the dialog tree quite alot.
Not only that but you'd have to have cutscenes as well, several ones for all the companions involved. I don't want to find excuses but that's also something to take into account.

And, like some others have said before, we don't know yet how elaborate the romances on Makeb are going to be. With all the 'It's only two flirt lines anyway..." talk (from both sides) I hope they won't settle for that, you know, since we didn't expect more anyway.

I think if things turn out lacklustre, we have to hold them accountable but we also need to be fair.

On another note, I forgot what a drag Tatooine was. Geez.....

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
01.20.2013 , 05:47 AM | #5454
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Not only that but you'd have to have cutscenes as well, several ones for all the companions involved. I don't want to find excuses but that's also something to take into account.
Those aren't excuses, they're reasons why it can't be done quickly.

Should SGRA have been in the game from the get go? Yes.

The problem is, they weren't. Now Bioware has to do some work to implement SGRAs, and it might take a little time to do it properly. But please don't take this as me defending Bioware. They did this to themselves, and we should absolutely hold Bioware's feet to the fire until they fix it.

But from my personal point of view, I want them done right. I never brought myself to "fix" either DA:O or ME (any of them) in order to romance any of the characters I wanted to - because I didn't think I'd be able to stand the wrong lines and the messed up animations. I don't want them to "fix" the lack of SGRAs in the same manner. (Was going to say something about NWN, but was unable to recall if it was fully voiced or not... But I do know it had far fewer lines, far fewer things needing to be fiddled with in order to get SGRs working - and even then, it was a pretty cheap and nasty way of doing it. The task involved removing some gender checks, changing masculine pronouns into gender tokens (which meant the line would insert the correct pronoun based in your character's gender), and assorted other tinkerings with the scripts.)

Quote:
And, like some others have said before, we don't know yet how elaborate the romances on Makeb are going to be. With all the 'It's only two flirt lines anyway..." talk (from both sides) I hope they won't settle for that, you know, since we didn't expect more anyway.

I think if things turn out lacklustre, we have to hold them accountable but we also need to be fair.

On another note, I forgot what a drag Tatooine was. Geez.....
I agree. This isn't a simple situation, and can't be fixed by someone at Bioware: Austin clicking their fingers or waving a magic wand. It is going to take time, no matter what solution they choose. I am happy they're including something with Makeb, and I'm sure we're not going to let them just rest on their laurels and not move on companion romances. However, we should be patient and reasoned and most importantly fair in our approach to this, because anything else makes us look like children throwing a tantrum because we didn't get what we wanted NOWNOWNOW.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.20.2013 , 08:13 AM | #5455
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
blegh... more and more all that they said sounds like PR garbage to me, nothing more. What makes SGRs, so so so complicated that it'll take years of writing to make it "right" ? What makes writing SGRs such an uber monumental titanic endeavour as opposed to OGRs ? How is it that neutral lines, like the ones the game currently has for most of the romances, with little references to the PC's gender is ok, but only ok for OGRs ?
Not all the romances make sense with a simple gender tag switch. Which means new cutscenes, new lines added in, so they need to beable to get the original voice actor back, because if they didn't, you can imagine how upset some of the playerbase will be "WHAT THE OMG THIS ISN'T MAKO...TORIAN...QUINN...ECT!"

Hmmm...I can swear both Adronokis and Torian mentioned gender, but I haven't play every class myself.

Wasn't put in at the beginning, so adding things in, won't be easy.

Also, I know my Inquistor had a romance going with a non-companion NPC that was a bit more than a few flirt options, and I wouldn't really say it was any less than the companion romances, the only difference really being, he didn't become a companion.

JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
01.20.2013 , 09:15 AM | #5456
It's kind of funny how with Mass Effect 3 they called in most of the important voice actors for the Extended Cut within a few months, but with SWTOR it's been a year now... and I'm fairly certain scheduling and paying the voice actors is the big hurdle for getting new companion content. I suppose that just goes to show how severely the budget has been cut for the game.

But if the Cartel Market and expansion sales go well, maybe eventually we'll reach a point where the game has enough content that needs to be voiced for it to be seen as worth the expenses and risks. Like, if they can record romance lines, lines for another expansion, some extra lines for lv.1-49 content, and maybe some lines for existing endgame/daily content... all at the same time.

That would put it pretty far into the future, though. Another year, at least.
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Hudlar's Avatar


Hudlar
01.20.2013 , 10:00 AM | #5457
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
And, like some others have said before, we don't know yet how elaborate the romances on Makeb are going to be.
Very true. I'm hoping for something like the non-companion romances that Troopers and (I think) Agents get now.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.20.2013 , 10:05 AM | #5458
Quote: Originally Posted by Hudlar View Post
Very true. I'm hoping for something like the non-companion romances that Troopers and (I think) Agents get now.
Spoiler

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
01.20.2013 , 10:21 AM | #5459
Spoilers, people.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.20.2013 , 10:27 AM | #5460
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Spoilers, people.
Sorry, fixed.