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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.03.2013 , 05:44 AM | #4891
Quote: Originally Posted by amnie View Post
I'm getting more and more 'suspicious' of bioware's reasoning behind it and my mind keeps driving back to 'they want to see reactions first and have people get used to it bit by bit' so they don't lose subscriptions over there (which is silly since I BET they would KEEP just as many subscriptions if this had been in-game right from the start)
I'm getting annoyed with some people insinuating that Bioware was pressured into this. Way to start urban myths there.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
01.03.2013 , 05:48 AM | #4892
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I'm getting annoyed with some people insinuating that Bioware was pressured into this. Way to start urban myths there.
Can't type much. Cut index finger cleaning the blades for the new Ninja blender we have.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Not so much here, but in the other two threads in General at the moment. I guess some have choose to ignore the facts that it had been over 9 months said any official word was given; that it had been promised back in Beta; that if GLAAD thought it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't have gotten back to us.

A few others, but my finger is throbbing.

Edit: Last thing...again, why is it that people that hate this content the most can't stay away from the related threads? They seem to be hung up on SGRs almost as much as the community that wants them is.

JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
01.03.2013 , 05:51 AM | #4893
I realize a lot of this has already been said by others, but I'll just post my perspective on it anyway...

Quote: Originally Posted by TarotMage View Post
There were indications that Kaidan was supposed to be romanceable by both male and female Shepards in Mass Effect 1 but was scrapped before launch. Dialogue was recorded by Mark Meer (the VA for male Shepard) which clearly showed romance with Kaidan was possible.
There has been an official statement on this, which is that they simply recorded every line of dialogue for both male and female Shepard. This is made evident by the presence of a normally inaccessible line where a male Shepard refers to himself as a woman.

The same applies to ME2's romances, as much as I would have loved a FemShep-Tali romance. I think Miranda would totally have worked as a romance option for FemShep in ME3, though... if she'd been available as a companion. (In ME2, Miranda was sort of obsessed with the idea of finding the ideal mate to go with her own "perfect" genetics, but by the end of the game she has received news that she is sterile, so if she really were bisexual she'd have no reason to only pursue men anymore.)

Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I was totally going to post this.... before you posted it! Kaidan is in fact my fav example of how presumeably straight companions can turn out to be bisexual later in the game and still make sense. <3
Back when people were still speculating about what homosexual love interests were going to be in ME3, and people were suggesting Ashley and Kaidan due to the previously mentioned duplicate lines, I recall making this argument: Liara's presence and interest in female Shepard in ME1 meant that Ashley was probably straight, while the fact that Kaidan had no way of knowing if male Shepard was interested in men back in ME1 (and thus might hesitate to show his own interest) made him a good candidate to be written as bisexual in ME3.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Now that's odd, considering there's twilek/human hybrids in TCW. Hmmm...
Last thing I read about that was they were actually regular Twi'lek children, but one of the people working on the book that refers to them as hybrids misinterpreted what was shown.
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amnie's Avatar


amnie
01.03.2013 , 06:10 AM | #4894
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I'm getting annoyed with some people insinuating that Bioware was pressured into this. Way to start urban myths there.
I don't know if I will excuse this with 'willfilly ignorant' (people claiming same gender romance has no place in star wars seems like another way of saying 'ew gay is icky' to me, only that people know if they flat out said this they would get their reply deleted)

not forgetting to mention that it is a freaking bioware game. argh! I'm more than a little annoyed by the whole 'it's not in just accept it' crowd. there are just certain things I have come to expect from a bioware game (same reason why I am not all that concered about lots of the npcs looking the same, female children having *****, every dungeon looking the same... this is also something 'typical bioware'... lawl)

LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
01.03.2013 , 06:13 AM | #4895
Quote: Originally Posted by Quething View Post
So in order to add s/s material to existing dialogs, they would have to go back, find a particular piece of dialog that's flagged as a flirt, and remove the "PC is male" or "PC is female" condition. That's it. Takes thirty seconds, and doesn't affect anything else in the game.
But how long does it take to do all that for every romance conversation choice, write new dialog, get all the voice actors back (taking into consideration each have their own schedules and could be busy, sick etc) then record all the dialog, implement it, test it, etc. etc. It is a lot more than just re-writing a bit of code and they have a lot on their plate already.
This blonde loves her Hutts, the bigger, the better.

amnie's Avatar


amnie
01.03.2013 , 06:18 AM | #4896
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
Can't type much. Cut index finger cleaning the blades for the new Ninja blender we have.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Not so much here, but in the other two threads in General at the moment. I guess some have choose to ignore the facts that it had been over 9 months said any official word was given; that it had been promised back in Beta; that if GLAAD thought it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't have gotten back to us.

A few others, but my finger is throbbing.

Edit: Last thing...again, why is it that people that hate this content the most can't stay away from the related threads? They seem to be hung up on SGRs almost as much as the community that wants them is.
without turning this too much into 'real life issues', they do it for the same reason why they complain about 'too much gay' on tv and go all 'I'm not homophobic but I don't want my children exposed to it and I don't want to have it shoved in my face'... (and with the tv they use the same arguments... it's not 'realistic' to see so much gay, it's taking spots off if really important stuff...blah-dee-dah)

we can only hope that from now on bioware will present all new content 'equal'.
in 5 years from now i won't care about this first year of madness IF they deliever from now on. 5 years from now the playerbase will no longer freak out because they are used to it.

Quething's Avatar


Quething
01.03.2013 , 07:25 AM | #4897
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDrusilla View Post
But how long does it take to do all that for every romance conversation choice, write new dialog, get all the voice actors back (taking into consideration each have their own schedules and could be busy, sick etc) then record all the dialog, implement it, test it, etc. etc. It is a lot more than just re-writing a bit of code and they have a lot on their plate already.
...

-_-

Look, I know I have a tendency to wall-of-text, but that's the second time in two days I've been replied to by somebody who clearly didn't actually read my whole post, wherein I already addressed the thing they replied to me to say. Is it me? Am I unclear somehow? Do I need to start using colored text or something?

LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
01.03.2013 , 08:49 AM | #4898
Sorry, I worded that badly, I was trying to highlight what you were saying about it being more involved than just flipping flags by also raising examples outside coding. It didn't help that I deleted the other paragraph I mean't to quote either:
Quote:
Now, this would probably add a fourth item to the UI in most cases, which I'm not sure the UI can support, which may be the biggest hurdle; to get around that you'd have to rewrite most of the scene, which would be a pain. The VA for the same-gender PC may not have recorded the line in the first place, so if you don't get them back, it would be silent; that also needs to be fixed. The line may say something really obviously gendered ("what's a nice girl like you doing in a cantina like this" from an NPC), in which case it needs to be rewritten and recorded again to use appropriate pronouns and descriptors. If there's an animation, like a kiss, included, there need to be four new animations to account for the fact that the four body types have their mouths in slightly different places between genders. So it is a more involved process than simply "flip the flags" implies.
Edit: The point I'm trying to make is that even if the coding is relatively simply, it is still quite an involved job and then you have script writing, actor/actress scheduling, sound recording and whatnot on top of it.
This blonde loves her Hutts, the bigger, the better.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
01.03.2013 , 10:43 AM | #4899
I want to address the whole email campaign mentality and why it happened for me this way.

You know, when I started this, I wasn't thinking of anything on a huge scale.

What I saw was a company that hadn't given even the smallest update to a content that was promised pre-launch for post launch. This was for content made in a large part with a minority group in mind. This had went on for over 8 months.

It truly bothered me that they were remaining so quiet. I couldn't understand it. Not even when a bunch of employees left the company, including everyone that had publicly stated about this was fired/left the company. Not even after the game was getting ready to go to F2P. Not after the Livestream either.

After the October article, I geninuely felt that they had misrepresented the part of the LGBT gamers that wanted SGR by talking about how inclusive EA/BW is with LGBT content, allowing the assumption that the content was already in ToR to be published, and yet didn't give us a word for nearly nine months at that point.

I don't think anyone read the correction notice down at the bottom. My final two straws were that article and the Livestream. They allowed certain assumptions to go to print while continuing to ignore the polite requests from the players. I got beyond angry and just determined to try to do something. I had no idea what that was.


It was another poster that told me that GLAAD had gotten involved with ToR in 2011 over this very issue. I was just thinking that maybe GLAAD would care if there was still no update on the content since March.

I'm serious, that's it. I wrote to them, unsure if they would respond. I know they are very busy and I wasn't certain if anything would come of it. But hey, I figured it wouldn't hurt. Worse case scenario is that they would have just deleted my message to them.

I started writing to the press at the same time, without telling them I went to GLAAD. I wanted to try to see if we could get an update about this from BW/EA if the press started talking about it. I did not want the press to know I had started to go to GLAAD also. I wanted them to simply bring visibility to the lack of an answer.

I honestly would have never dreamed that GLAAD would have done more than hit delete on my email. They didn't though, so here we are. I don't think writing GLAAD changed much except maybe get an answer going in the months before Makeb. I was worried for awhile that they were just going to spring it on the player base a couple of weeks before Makeb landed.

I started this on November 29th in search of an update. Just an update. I had no idea it would get this big.

That's my side of it, for what it's worth.

For any newcomers or lurkers, I can post the EA/Zynga article on request.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.03.2013 , 10:52 AM | #4900
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post

Edit: Last thing...again, why is it that people that hate this content the most can't stay away from the related threads? They seem to be hung up on SGRs almost as much as the community that wants them is.
Yeah, I know. It's like both ends of a magnet. Though I'd like to state that I could live without the "other side" being so childish about this at times, instead of just sucking it up and taking it like grown-ups.