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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
12.31.2012 , 01:30 AM | #4681
Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
It is pretty obvious the "due to time and money" BS was just a smokescreen to begin with. The decision to exclude SGRA content from the game was clearly done due to the ideology of BW-Austin's leadership during development.
Yeah, considering the original statement that there aren't any gay people in Star Wars, the time and money excuse has always seemed like a smokescreen to me. Either someone in charge didn't want homosexuality in the game, or someone made the assumption that not having it was what would be "appropriate" or "correct" for a Star Wars game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
The extra voice recording and programming time required to create a mechanism of gender checks for dialogue (both things done no where else in the game) to exclude the GLBT community from the game by itself would have been stricken from the development schedule if this was truly about time and money.
Well, I'm pretty sure there are a few alternate lines depending on gender, where the protagonist is referred to as either a man or a woman, so gender checks are definitely there. Gender-specific conversation trees, however, are exclusive to romance content.

Flawed (and at some points incredibly broken) as it is, I think Dragon Age II definitely had the right approach, despite all the complaints. Bi- or pansexual companion characters are the way to go, and are far from the least "realistic" things we see in this game. The real problem, in my mind, is that the romance arcs are so dependant on these completely one-dimensional approval systems... or (especially in Mass Effect) simply picking the nice or flirty option in conversation every time.
The Morrowbringer Legacy The Red Eclipse (PvE) [EU]
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Rashenn's Avatar


Rashenn
12.31.2012 , 02:14 AM | #4682
As I won't be around until tomorrow..Happy New Year folks and may early 2013 FINALLY bring us the clarification we're looking for

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
12.31.2012 , 03:41 AM | #4683
There's a fair number of us from Down Under (and environs) in this thread... So... Happy New Year (in a few hours, anyway)!

Hopefully we'll get this all settled one way or another soon.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.31.2012 , 04:13 AM | #4684
Happy New Year (in just under three hours) for us Antipodeans! And to all y'all others when the time comes!
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Palar's Avatar


Palar
12.31.2012 , 05:00 AM | #4685
Happy New Year... may it be better than this one!

Razmoudah's Avatar


Razmoudah
12.31.2012 , 06:58 AM | #4686
Well, I haven't taken the time to read all 400+ pages of this thread, but until I took a look at the last page I had started to think the SGR content would be in the Expansion Patch (you know, the big patch that is included for those who don't get the expansion that covers all of the non-new content changes that weren't exactly fixes, such as patch 1.07 for Diablo II, as they actually changed the function of the Lightning Mastery skill for Sorceresses with that patch), since we've only got a handful of days left until the early access begins and the writers could very well already be working on the next expansion if they are that far ahead of everything else (which is quite probable considering how long the code and graphical sides of things can take, a story written in a week can take nearly a month to handle the rest). Of course, in my own observations Bioware isn't nearly as great of a company as they were a decade ago, with the lion's share of the slide happening post 'merger' (it's always felt more like having been completely bought out to me.....), and sadly most American companies aren't comfortable with 'freedom of choice' in things that go against the religious/moral beliefs of their higher ups, and that's all the more on that subject I'm even willing to go.

At present I'd say it's mostly a wait and see aspect, as if the SGR content isn't in the Expansion Patch I'd say it's a given that it'll never happen, and since two of the chars I'm creating are distinctly bi (I have certain character archetypes I work with in most games, Dragon Age being the only one so far where I haven't used any do to the lack of none of them fitting even reasonably well into the frame work of the class and specialization system utilized in Origins, I haven't made it to Awakening or DAII yet). If that does come to pass I might very seriously re-consider even continuing to support TOR, and since I'd finally gotten a computer that was high-enough spec to actually play the game and found out that they'd fixed the balancing issue with the cost of core skills (especially since they cost Credits to learn/upgrade, which typically is enough to turn me off from a game by itself, and the reason I've never played more than about 30 minutes of WoW) and found that the game might actually be worth subscribing to (and even recently subscribed) I might just decide to not even attempt to keep up with Mass Effect or Bioware properties in general. The only Star Wars RPG's I've ever found that I've enjoyed were by Bioware, and KotOR did include such content, and it has been in ever Bioware property I'm familiar with (I'm not familiar with Mass Effect in general, under-spec PC being the main reason) so such a departure from their norm would be a sign to me that they are no longer the company I'd liked and respected and that they aren't worth watching anymore. Heck, Square Enix has been very iffy as well. The Final Fantasy franchise has take a serious downgrade since Hironobu Sakaguchi left, and the last Star Ocean title barely feels like it belongs (and it's an 'alternate universe' one as well to separate it from the original series), only the Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts properties have remained relatively un-harmed by that merger, and are the only reason I still pay any attention to that company. I understand that companies will change over time, but when features/traits to their properties that used to be always included suddenly disappear, or are altered as to be unrecognizable, it's hard to call it a change for the better.

Well, that was a bit of a rant, and for now I guess I'll just enjoy the four chars I have created, and wait to see what happens when the Expansion Patch releases, which means that within the next 10 days I'm either going to be happy I've pre-ordered it or wondering why I ever wasted my time with trying to return to TOR.

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
12.31.2012 , 10:44 AM | #4687
Quote: Originally Posted by Razmoudah View Post
The only Star Wars RPG's I've ever found that I've enjoyed were by Bioware, and KotOR did include such content, and it has been in every Bioware property I'm familiar with (I'm not familiar with Mass Effect in general, under-spec PC being the main reason) so such a departure from their norm would be a sign to me that they are no longer the company I'd liked and respected and that they aren't worth watching anymore.
I know I've said this before, but remember SW:TOR is made by BW-Austin which is separate from the BW-Edmonton team that has made all the great BW RPG's we love (BG, KotOR, JE, ME, DAO, etc.). While they share the BW name that seems to me to be about as far the association goes.

BW-Austin clearly has different guiding principles for their game design. BW-Edmonton takes a lot of pride in their inclusive game design and has long been a supporter of the GLBT community. BW-Austin clearly isn't.

I'll admit that I too have lost a great deal of interest in anything to do with BW, regardless of which studio a game is being made by, because of the Austin group's dismissal of the GLBT community. That doesn't mean I'll never buy a product from the Edmonton group again but I'll definitely be giving anything they make a close look before I do. I certainly wouldn't ever purchase anything from the Austin group again, though I imagine the Austin group's doors will simply be closed once TOR shuts down.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.31.2012 , 11:21 AM | #4688
First off, good morning and Happy New Year's Eve! Happy New Year's to you non Yanks!

Forgive me for chopping up your post some. I thought it was well written, just a little cluttered in parts.


Quote: Originally Posted by Razmoudah View Post
Well, I haven't taken the time to read all 400+ pages of this thread, but until I took a look at the last page I had started to think the SGR content would be in the Expansion Patch (you know, the big patch that is included for those who don't get the expansion that covers all of the non-new content changes that weren't exactly fixes, such as patch 1.07 for Diablo II, as they actually changed the function of the Lightning Mastery skill for Sorceresses with that patch), since we've only got a handful of days left until the early access begins and the writers could very well already be working on the next expansion if they are that far ahead of everything else (which is quite probable considering how long the code and graphical sides of things can take, a story written in a week can take nearly a month to handle the rest). Of course, in my own observations Bioware isn't nearly as great of a company as they were a decade ago, with the lion's share of the slide happening post 'merger' (it's always felt more like having been completely bought out to me.....), and sadly most American companies aren't comfortable with 'freedom of choice' in things that go against the religious/moral beliefs of their higher ups, and that's all the more on that subject I'm even willing to go.
They very well could be working on the next expansion. However, I do know that Alexander Freed said, just after he left the company, that there was more updates already in the pike. I think that they are working on getting the animation and graphics correct. In my opinion, I think any VOs and writing are already done for at least half a year's worth updates. It would be nice to see this game get a proper expansion, with new races and a continuation of class stories.

BioWare-Austin is so much different than BioWare-Edmonton it's glaring. BW: Edmonton does the DA and ME series and I can tell there is a lot of respect and love towards that fan base.

BW-Austin only does this game, and boy, does it show. I don't think I can use the words "love" and "respect" when it comes to how this branch treats all of its customers. Not just for this feature either.

When it comes to this game and it's lack of an update, what makes this silence so awful on their part is that EA and BioWare have publicly spoken out against such extremely family groups in the past.

It's even been over this very game.They've taken so many stances for LGBT rights that the way the treat the players in ToR makes no sense. It's pretty shameful and I hate seeing it. I do agree that the Almighty Dollar can rule all though, I just wish The Powers That Be would let the developers, writers and moderators speak to us.


Quote:
At present I'd say it's mostly a wait and see aspect, as if the SGR content isn't in the Expansion Patch I'd say it's a given that it'll never happen, and since two of the chars I'm creating are distinctly bi (I have certain character archetypes I work with in most games, Dragon Age being the only one so far where I haven't used any do to the lack of none of them fitting even reasonably well into the frame work of the class and specialization system utilized in Origins, I haven't made it to Awakening or DAII yet). If that does come to pass I might very seriously re-consider even continuing to support TOR, and since I'd finally gotten a computer that was high-enough spec to actually play the game and found out that they'd fixed the balancing issue with the cost of core skills (especially since they cost Credits to learn/upgrade, which typically is enough to turn me off from a game by itself, and the reason I've never played more than about 30 minutes of WoW) and found that the game might actually be worth subscribing to (and even recently subscribed) I might just decide to not even attempt to keep up with Mass Effect or Bioware properties in general.
If you take a look at the Steam and Orgins sites, you can get the Ulitmate Edition of DA: O. It has all nine DLCs and Awakening. There is also a free promo going too on Orgins that will net you some sweet gear to start with. I've been playing the DA games as a break from ToR. Nothing wrong with ToR, but it had been years since I had played a BW game. I think since about 2004 or so, when the (redone) Neverwinter Nights 1 came out. I don't plan on playing the ME series or at least not for quite awhile. I also picked up KOTOR for about $5 on sale on Steam, so I'm checking that out too for the first time. Between KotOR, ToR and DA, I'm pretty full up on my game time.


Quote:
The only Star Wars RPG's I've ever found that I've enjoyed were by Bioware, and KotOR did include such content, and it has been in ever Bioware property I'm familiar with (I'm not familiar with Mass Effect in general, under-spec PC being the main reason) so such a departure from their norm would be a sign to me that they are no longer the company I'd liked and respected and that they aren't worth watching anymore. Heck, Square Enix has been very iffy as well. The Final Fantasy franchise has take a serious downgrade since Hironobu Sakaguchi left, and the last Star Ocean title barely feels like it belongs (and it's an 'alternate universe' one as well to separate it from the original series), only the Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts properties have remained relatively un-harmed by that merger, and are the only reason I still pay any attention to that company. I understand that companies will change over time, but when features/traits to their properties that used to be always included suddenly disappear, or are altered as to be unrecognizable, it's hard to call it a change for the better.
I hear you about Square, and that is another one of my driving forces. I have watched some of my most beloved companies including Square and Blizzard not only squander their financial resources, but the good will of their fans/customers. I've gotten sick of it and I want to try to do something about it. Maybe it isn't much, but maybe we can get one big company like EA to actually listen for a bit. It's a stretch, but it is something myself and others are shooting for. I don't want to hurt or crush EA (not like I could,) but I do want this fully out in the open. I want full accountability from them regarding their double standards in all of this.

Quote:
Well, that was a bit of a rant, and for now I guess I'll just enjoy the four chars I have created, and wait to see what happens when the Expansion Patch releases, which means that within the next 10 days I'm either going to be happy I've pre-ordered it or wondering why I ever wasted my time with trying to return to TOR.
No worries on the rant. If you go back about 10-20 pages, many of us have ranted in some way or another. As a lifelong gamer, I know that passion well.

Personally, I'm really excited about RotHC. I am going back into the game full throttle once it comes out. Doup has bad carpal tunnel, so he can't play much. He is going to order Makeb though, so we can finish our Pub toons together. They've been sitting at level 46 for months.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.31.2012 , 11:32 AM | #4689
This is what our campaign needs! I thought I had remembered wrong but...

Maybe we should try cupcakes!

Baked goods! Anyone got some free time and access to high amounts of postage?

I can make gluten free cupcakes that actually taste really good.

Anglvamp's Avatar


Anglvamp
12.31.2012 , 12:40 PM | #4690
hehe, I'd be all for something like that, Nat, but what message do we send with them?

^.^