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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Dandune's Avatar


Dandune
12.29.2012 , 07:17 PM | #4621
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
So every time you say there's no reason people can't play through the game, that there's no reason to stall character development, that there's no reason to be disenchanted with the game you're really just stating an opinion as if it were fact.
Personaly I think this game was primarily made for players that enjoy Star Wars fantasy universe.
If someone isn't able to level a character just because he doesn't have a choice to watch animated romance fantasies of his personal choice then that person doesn't really want to play the game itself but instead looks for some virtual emotional and/or sexual satisfaction.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.29.2012 , 07:28 PM | #4622
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Also in reply to a previous responder. There's still classes one can play, that give you starting companions you can't or won't flirt with (JK and SI come to mind first).

Yes, nice to flirt along as you level, you'll also be level 50 and then have to continue to gain affection with your companion after 50, unless you're handing out companion gifts left and right to get the higher affection. Not to mention, you'd have to make every choice coincide with what gives positive affection from your companion, so you don't keep taking steps backwards. While the step back isn't usually big, I haven't met a person yet who picked all the right options without redoing a scene or cheating it (which then goes to the idea that one isn't really basing it on the story, but just getting positive affection).

No. I do get it. Saying you can't level (when you can) because of something you're not likely to get without really going all out for it by level 50, sounds better for the wanting than "Well, I can play the game and wait."

Getting to the courting part is usually about what over 2000 positive affection? Easily able to get to 50 without hitting 2000 affection rating.
This is not just about mechanics. There is also a very real impact upon the person playing the game to be constantly reminded that the production team thought that OGRs were worth putting in but SGRs weren't. Putting the level mechanics aside for a moment you need to consider that some people feel actively uncomfortable being faced with a dozen NPC flirt options they're never going to take but seeing the massive gap where SGR flirts should be.

As I said before, a point that you've completely side-stepped, this isn't just about companion flirts. It's about mission NPC flirts too. And there are plenty of those (mostly for male characters) that you cannot avoid seeing in the process of levelling.

Can someone physically and mechanically level without activating companion flirts? Sure. But there's a rash of non-companion flirts one can't avoid which would be tolerable for those people [i]if{/i] there were SGR equivalents and there simply are not. So for those people it might be difficult or even intolerable to level a character without feeling tremendously uncomfortable with the game.

So no, actually, judging by your arguments I'd say you don't get it; in fact you've stated several times that you don't comprehend why people can't just shut up and play. You understand the mechanics just fine, better than a lot of people, I'd wager. Respect to you there. But there's emotive content here that you clearly don't even need to consider for yourself because it doesn't affect you. You're not putting yourself outside your own experiences and contemplating that these people might have emotionally compelling reasons to avoid levelling their characters that are just as valid as anyone's distaste with, say, PvP or end-game content.

Which, in a way, is fine. You don't need to do that. You don't even need to understand. Other people's emotive content certainly isn't your responsibility. My point is that you're presenting opinion as if it were fact without taking everything into account. Mechanics might be the whole sum of the game but it's not the whole sum of the people playing it.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.29.2012 , 07:31 PM | #4623
Quote: Originally Posted by Dandune View Post
Personaly I think this game was primarily made for players that enjoy Star Wars fantasy universe.
If someone isn't able to level a character just because he doesn't have a choice to watch animated romance fantasies of his personal choice then that person doesn't really want to play the game itself but instead looks for some virtual emotional and/or sexual satisfaction.
And that's your opinion, which is fine. It's wrong for some people but it's still your opinion and you're welcome to have it.

I would suggest that you remember that romance has been a part of the Star Wars universe from its inception. It is indeed romance that makes Luke leave for Ben Kenobi's in the first place. You think that theoretical person 'doesn't really want to play the game itself' but you're actually incorrect: they just want to play a different part of it than you do.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.29.2012 , 07:36 PM | #4624
FYI, about being married to multiple companions, yes, there have been several bugs and exploits in that regard, there definitely was one for Agents that they had to hotfix twice (people purposefully exploiting or accidentally marrying two), and no, if working correctly, you can't marry two companions, in cases where you have more than one romanceable companion (Agent, Smuggler, Warrior, not sure who else), you WILL have a conversation that forces you to choose. The only exception to that is non-companion romances, they seem to be under a different rule.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.29.2012 , 07:51 PM | #4625
**pops in**

Wow, a mechanics debate! Utterly ignoring the missing story arc. Or the lack of an update on said story arc content.

The Legacy Tree does not count. It never has counted in my opinion. It looks like a little fun mechanic that has zero impact on anything what so ever.

What is this, 1.2 again?

Some will utterly refuse to get the point. They seem well meaning, but they are "concerned" for us and why should a little thing like missing story arcs in a story based MMO seems silly. Why, holding out for SGR and SG flirts is just a matter of mechanics.

That's their opinion. Stop feeding them at this point.



Take your demeaning and "concerned" arguments elsewhere. It's tired, old and I've seen it more times than I can count since late February.

This is the last words I'm saying to you, SithKoriandr.

Please. Go. Away.

**pops out, and will make a more positive post later**

Zu_Long's Avatar


Zu_Long
12.29.2012 , 10:36 PM | #4626
Every month or so I come back to this thread, hoping against hope that Bioware has said something, or issued some statement giving at least SOME new info on this. Every month, I am disappointed.

As a straight person, the lack of this content hasn't affected me the way it has some. I have four level 50 characters that I've enjoyed the crap out of, one of which I still hope to be able to use for SGR content if it pops up later. I have three other characters at various stages of leveling. Thanks to my play style (going through the whole game with a friend in a different class) I've seen all the class stories from beginning to end, though not all the permutations they can take (Imperial agent apparently has at least 5 different possible endgame scenarios by itself).

So I've had a blast, and I've never regretted being a subscriber or buying the collector's edition for a moment. Yet for all that, I can't help but see the giant hole in the game left by the absence of SGR content. As I said earlier, one of my characters (female trooper, Jennifer Hale is the best space marine ever) was always going to be gay. It was a little awkward playing through her story seeing the unfulfilled opportunities for SGR content, but I got through it.

What breaks my heart is seeing people in this thread for whom what I described above is not simply awkward or disappointing, but actually a gamebreaking flaw. And I can absolutely see why. A Bioware game without romances doesn't really feel like a Bioware game, plain and simple.

It really bothers me that Bioware hasn't said a word about this since June. This isn't just some fantasy the SGR community cooked up. The players were told it was absolutely being worked on, that it would be coming out "this year." It's unfathomable to me that anyone who calls themselves a gamer couldn't sympathize with a group of people who have been waiting over a year for content they were told was coming from the very beginning.

What bothers me the most is that Bioware won't even clarify how the content is going to be implemented. I personally suspect that the content from 1-50 is the content from 1-50. No new conversation options are going to be added for that bracket, though you may eventually be able to play from level 1 with an SGR companion in the same way that you can play with HK-51 now. Again, that's what I suspect because it makes the most sense based on the framework they already have, but I have no evidence for this, and it's mind boggling that Bioware won't just TELL PEOPLE how they are planning to implement it, or if they aren't, then say so and be done with it.

Anyway, that was a bit rambling, but I guess the point is just to let people know that people who otherwise really enjoy the game are bothered by this too. Hopefully SGR companions are part of the Makeb update, though given that they didn't make it part of their initial pitch, I have doubts. Also, the fact that Allison Berryman went around to various threads on the board to pitch the new stuff coming in the expansion, but is conspicuously absent from this thread, does not help my reservations.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.30.2012 , 12:23 AM | #4627
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
This is not just about mechanics. There is also a very real impact upon the person playing the game to be constantly reminded that the production team thought that OGRs were worth putting in but SGRs weren't. Putting the level mechanics aside for a moment you need to consider that some people feel actively uncomfortable being faced with a dozen NPC flirt options they're never going to take but seeing the massive gap where SGR flirts should be.

As I said before, a point that you've completely side-stepped, this isn't just about companion flirts. It's about mission NPC flirts too. And there are plenty of those (mostly for male characters) that you cannot avoid seeing in the process of levelling.

Can someone physically and mechanically level without activating companion flirts? Sure. But there's a rash of non-companion flirts one can't avoid which would be tolerable for those people [i]if{/i] there were SGR equivalents and there simply are not. So for those people it might be difficult or even intolerable to level a character without feeling tremendously uncomfortable with the game.

So no, actually, judging by your arguments I'd say you don't get it; in fact you've stated several times that you don't comprehend why people can't just shut up and play. You understand the mechanics just fine, better than a lot of people, I'd wager. Respect to you there. But there's emotive content here that you clearly don't even need to consider for yourself because it doesn't affect you. You're not putting yourself outside your own experiences and contemplating that these people might have emotionally compelling reasons to avoid levelling their characters that are just as valid as anyone's distaste with, say, PvP or end-game content.

Which, in a way, is fine. You don't need to do that. You don't even need to understand. Other people's emotive content certainly isn't your responsibility. My point is that you're presenting opinion as if it were fact without taking everything into account. Mechanics might be the whole sum of the game but it's not the whole sum of the people playing it.
o.O Did you get this upset when Mario couldn't rescue Wario instead of the Princess?

They gave an explanation. They said "sometime after launch" You really have to go through the whole game picking the flirt option with every NPC? Hell, I don't even get the option to Mind Trick every NPC with my Jedi and Sith, and that seems more inline with options we're missing.

Even if they added in SGR with the companions, what makes you think there would be SGR flirting options with other NPCs? Even if there were, they'd likely be in the level 50 range, I would think, as to not take away from the 1-50 game there already is...unless they put in a fourth option in those chats (doubtful).

With all that. Saying "can't play the game untill it's in" goes right back to "You can. You just put companion to flirt with on hold, and work with the other companions" Which should be fine, as everyone says they want to experience EVERYTHING so they must be okay with maxing out the other companions too.

I'm not saying don't ask for it. I just think the "I can't play" line coming from posters is more a sympathy plea, than a reality. They can play, they can use non courting companions/OG companions they have no intention of flirting with, play the game, and smile when SGR does arrive.

But yeah...I could be wrong...buuuut...I don't think I'm wrong on the current NPC Flirting. Maybe/likely on Maeba (sp?) where they can put it in fresh from the start, I just don't see it happening in all the past content. Again, could be wrong, but I doubt it, that's just more work.

Which leads me back to thinking, the expansion more than likely having a new companion introduced, rather than them going in changing the current ones, so you'd have to get to 50 anyways.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.30.2012 , 12:42 AM | #4628
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
o.O Did you get this upset when Mario couldn't rescue Wario instead of the Princess?
I'm not upset at all. I'm trying to explain some pretty basic concepts to someone who, it appears, is determined to ignore them.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
They gave an explanation. They said "sometime after launch" You really have to go through the whole game picking the flirt option with every NPC? Hell, I don't even get the option to Mind Trick every NPC with my Jedi and Sith, and that seems more inline with options we're missing.

Even if they added in SGR with the companions, what makes you think there would be SGR flirting options with other NPCs? Even if there were, they'd likely be in the level 50 range, I would think, as to not take away from the 1-50 game there already is...unless they put in a fourth option in those chats (doubtful).
Again, you're not listening. One can only assume at this stage that you're choosing not to listen, because while you seem determined to miss my point you don't seem stupid.

Whether one picks the flirt options or not at certain points one will be presented with them over and again - in the case of the male Smuggler (I can't comment on female Smuggler, I haven't seen it) one is bombarded with flirtation. There's a whole mini-mission to seduce a woman on one of the planets and as far as I can tell it has no point other than putting a bit more flirtation and sex into a storyline that's already pretty rife with it.

These people see those flirt prompts and each time they do they know that there are no flirt prompts in the entire game that suit them. Absolutely none. Torture has been included, thievery has been included, lying and deception and death and opposite gender flirts, they're all in there. There's exactly zero content for non-heterosexuals. If you can't see how that might make someone uncomfortable with levelling their character then I must assume you are choosing not to see it.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
With all that. Saying "can't play the game untill it's in" goes right back to "You can. You just put companion to flirt with on hold, and work with the other companions" Which should be fine, as everyone says they want to experience EVERYTHING so they must be okay with maxing out the other companions too.

I'm not saying don't ask for it. I just think the "I can't play" line coming from posters is more a sympathy plea, than a reality. They can play, they can use non courting companions/OG companions they have no intention of flirting with, play the game, and smile when SGR does arrive.
And I'm saying... once again... that it's not just a matter of mechanics. Some people are tremendously uncomfortable with having flirt options (note that I say 'options') shoved in one's face all the time, outlining again and again how much non-heterosexuals have been left out in the cold over this.

For the majority of the people saying they 'can't' keep playing (and I agree that 'can't' is an unfortunate word choice) I think it's a fair guess that they feel too uncomfortable, disenchanted, excluded and angry to play. For them the word 'can't' might be entirely appropriate and it might have nothing at all to do with mechanics - which is a point that I've brought up several times and one that you repeatedly ignore, then trying to discredit my comments by insinuating that I'm angry.

I AM angry, actually, but I'm angry at Bioware, and I'm angry at the continual silence. I'm certainly not angry at you. Emphatic and verbose, certainly, but not angry. I just don't get why you'd bother coming into this thread and claim that one of the absolute most key points about what the LGBT crowd are feeling - excluded - is somehow irrelevant to their gameplay. That seems... foolish to me. 'I have no problem with SGRAs being in the game but shut up because you're not actually uncomfortable, you're just whining' seems to be what you're saying, and that doesn't wash.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
But yeah...I could be wrong...buuuut...I don't think I'm wrong on the current NPC Flirting. Maybe/likely on Maeba (sp?) where they can put it in fresh from the start, I just don't see it happening in all the past content. Again, could be wrong, but I doubt it, that's just more work.

Which leads me back to thinking, the expansion more than likely having a new companion introduced, rather than them going in changing the current ones, so you'd have to get to 50 anyways.
You probably mean Makeb, unless there's another planet coming with the expansion. I don't know, I haven't bothered keeping up with the content news regarding Makeb. I've preordered it and intend to explore it but the only thing I want news on right now is SGRAs.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.30.2012 , 02:08 AM | #4629
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
I'm not upset at all. I'm trying to explain some pretty basic concepts to someone who, it appears, is determined to ignore them.



Again, you're not listening. One can only assume at this stage that you're choosing not to listen, because while you seem determined to miss my point you don't seem stupid.

Whether one picks the flirt options or not at certain points one will be presented with them over and again - in the case of the male Smuggler (I can't comment on female Smuggler, I haven't seen it) one is bombarded with flirtation. There's a whole mini-mission to seduce a woman on one of the planets and as far as I can tell it has no point other than putting a bit more flirtation and sex into a storyline that's already pretty rife with it.

These people see those flirt prompts and each time they do they know that there are no flirt prompts in the entire game that suit them. Absolutely none. Torture has been included, thievery has been included, lying and deception and death and opposite gender flirts, they're all in there. There's exactly zero content for non-heterosexuals. If you can't see how that might make someone uncomfortable with levelling their character then I must assume you are choosing not to see it.



And I'm saying... once again... that it's not just a matter of mechanics. Some people are tremendously uncomfortable with having flirt options (note that I say 'options') shoved in one's face all the time, outlining again and again how much non-heterosexuals have been left out in the cold over this.

For the majority of the people saying they 'can't' keep playing (and I agree that 'can't' is an unfortunate word choice) I think it's a fair guess that they feel too uncomfortable, disenchanted, excluded and angry to play. For them the word 'can't' might be entirely appropriate and it might have nothing at all to do with mechanics - which is a point that I've brought up several times and one that you repeatedly ignore, then trying to discredit my comments by insinuating that I'm angry.

I AM angry, actually, but I'm angry at Bioware, and I'm angry at the continual silence. I'm certainly not angry at you. Emphatic and verbose, certainly, but not angry. I just don't get why you'd bother coming into this thread and claim that one of the absolute most key points about what the LGBT crowd are feeling - excluded - is somehow irrelevant to their gameplay. That seems... foolish to me. 'I have no problem with SGRAs being in the game but shut up because you're not actually uncomfortable, you're just whining' seems to be what you're saying, and that doesn't wash.



You probably mean Makeb, unless there's another planet coming with the expansion. I don't know, I haven't bothered keeping up with the content news regarding Makeb. I've preordered it and intend to explore it but the only thing I want news on right now is SGRAs.
If someone has a problem with the fact that theres a flirt option, but not one they want, then the problem is the player, not the game and not the devs. I know my character whether attracted to SG or OG doesn't get to flirt with every character I think they would. I don't take it as a personal insult or let it get me down and thinking BW is doing something terrible.

So why not fight for a flirt option on every possible NPC you meet?

I also recognize the most important fact that most in this thread seems to miss. This is not BW's other games. This is SWTOR. I'm not saying they shouldn't work on it. But the examples of "Well their other games have it" is meaningless. They're not the same game. That's like saying, "This company made an electric toothbrush, now all of them should be electric"

That said, there was at least one SG NPC who seemed to flirt with my BH. So it's not like it isn't in there. You just don't get to hook up with a companion. And Ashara, really, one of the worst NPCS to hookup with. Her personality is terrible, and for the female BHs that would be the only SGR option...sooo...you take it because it's the only option and no other good option is available? If that's the case, could always treat current relations just like that...no good option, since you know, the npc isn't attracted to your character.

This thread just reminds me of Lucent Hearts (believe that's the name) where the game is released and people complained about something that was never said to be a feature to begin with (SGR) in a game based around marring another player and teaming with them for bonuses.

And I recall the linked post saying "will be put in post launch" not "put in within the year" is there another post I'm missing? Or is this a case of players putting words into devs mouths again?

Palar's Avatar


Palar
12.30.2012 , 02:23 AM | #4630
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
And I recall the linked post saying "will be put in post launch" not "put in within the year" is there another post I'm missing? Or is this a case of players putting words into devs mouths again?
Here's Erickson, at the Guild Summit. Outdated, forgotten, and never clarified, but he said it.