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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
12.22.2012 , 05:21 AM | #4361
Quote: Originally Posted by Eleuril View Post
Presumably that's just the people who actively want SGRs to be implemented. I'd imagine the percentage of people who don't mind them being implemented is rather higher. I'd hazard a guess that there aren't that many people who actively oppose SGRs and who will be upset if they're put in the game.
If that is the case, the minority vs. majority argument is even sillier.
Indeed. To use the PvP comparison again, many many people may not actively be asking for PvP content, but if it's in, may indulge in it. I know that happened to me in another MMO. I was actively doing the equivalent of warzones there for some time, got bored soon, but alas, there's other people who came and stayed. I have discovered my love for fun events that way as well.

What I want to say is, the minority vs. majority argument IS silly. People that may be indifferent towards a certain content before it's implemented may get into it once it's in.

I'm sure BW evaluates SGR "usage" (so to speak) in their other games, and I'm sure a 20-40% percent guess is not that far off, considering that people may play through a game various times or, in the case of an MMO, have different alts to play.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.22.2012 , 06:17 AM | #4362
I'll just let Mr. Gaider say this for me.


This is about DA2, for the record. However, this is my favorite quote because of how well it applies to our situation. It's something I think most gamers forget...


Quote: Originally Posted by David Gaider
The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else.

The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.


Quote:
And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don't see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what's everyone's fuss all about? That's the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want.



This part...I found very interesting. Again, something that I can say most people overlook.


Quote:
The truth is that making a romance available for both genders is far less costly than creating an entirely new one. Does it create some issues of implementation? Sure-- but anything you try on this front is going to have its issues, and inevitably you'll always leave someone out in the cold. In this case, are all straight males left out in the cold? Not at all. There are romances available for them just the same as anyone else. Not all straight males require that their content be exclusive, after all, and you can see that even on this thread.

Edit: Eh, have a couple of links.

This contains the full "complaint" and David's awesome full quote.

Hmm, I wonder if these guys would be interested about this...

Perhaps I should send out another email later.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.22.2012 , 06:58 AM | #4363
Last thought for now.


Quote: Originally Posted by David Gaider
And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least.


Wise words. It has been a driving force for me throughout all of this.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
12.22.2012 , 07:49 AM | #4364
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
I'll just let Mr. Gaider say this for me.
Can I please say that I love David Gaider?

Not sure if this is on topic or not, but I'd like him to write and/or produce any and every BW game that's out there, period.

Yes, I'm that in love with the guy.

techwitch's Avatar


techwitch
12.22.2012 , 08:03 AM | #4365
Well, he's right, and the SGRA following on ME and DA was much larger than everyone thinks. My ex-wife and her girlfriend are actually HUGE fans of either the Grey Warden and Allastair or the Grey Warden and the elf assassin guy (I forgot his name. My bad). I, personally like the elf assassin guy, and have done OGR with him as well as SGR with him. So, that said... I am a roleplayer, and I want the whole danged enchilada, dangit. Some of my toons require the SGRA, others require BGRA, and still others are fine at OGRA. OGRA... Isn't that a character from some movie?

Interestingly enough, I have my femme smuggler and my femme Bounty Hunter listed as married in my Legacy.
Choosing to limit one's vision is not the path to enlightenment. I prefer a world where there are limitless possibilities.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.22.2012 , 08:04 AM | #4366
While I'm not against this, I can't be the only one who thinks it's a little late am I?

So they implement SGR. Do I get the chance to redo all my companions relationships, or stuck with the options I had? By the sounds of it, I'd have to create all new characters, which with this games content, I really don't see the care to repeat the same storyline multiple times, even for a different AC.

Wouldn't the time best be spent for the majority of players on just new content period? New quests on planets, so a player can take multiple generic quest routes to get levels, instead of the same generic quests?

Now I know they have multiple devs, going over multiple things, but how do they change it for the players who've gotten all that affection on their characters already? Do you think adding it in now will suddenly give TOR a rise in sub numbers to make it worth it? Doesn't seem likely.

techwitch's Avatar


techwitch
12.22.2012 , 08:18 AM | #4367
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
While I'm not against this, I can't be the only one who thinks it's a little late am I?

So they implement SGR. Do I get the chance to redo all my companions relationships, or stuck with the options I had? By the sounds of it, I'd have to create all new characters, which with this games content, I really don't see the care to repeat the same storyline multiple times, even for a different AC.

Wouldn't the time best be spent for the majority of players on just new content period? New quests on planets, so a player can take multiple generic quest routes to get levels, instead of the same generic quests?

Now I know they have multiple devs, going over multiple things, but how do they change it for the players who've gotten all that affection on their characters already? Do you think adding it in now will suddenly give TOR a rise in sub numbers to make it worth it? Doesn't seem likely.
That isn't the point. The point is that they have failed to live up to expectations, and in doing so, have alienated people from the game. They need to rectify that. This is about what is right and what is wrong. They have SGRA's in the Sims, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and other titles, then when they make an MMO they suddenly shrink from their usual MO? That needs addressing.
Choosing to limit one's vision is not the path to enlightenment. I prefer a world where there are limitless possibilities.

JCisneros's Avatar


JCisneros
12.22.2012 , 08:31 AM | #4368
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
While I'm not against this, I can't be the only one who thinks it's a little late am I?

So they implement SGR. Do I get the chance to redo all my companions relationships, or stuck with the options I had? By the sounds of it, I'd have to create all new characters, which with this games content, I really don't see the care to repeat the same storyline multiple times, even for a different AC.

Wouldn't the time best be spent for the majority of players on just new content period? New quests on planets, so a player can take multiple generic quest routes to get levels, instead of the same generic quests?

Now I know they have multiple devs, going over multiple things, but how do they change it for the players who've gotten all that affection on their characters already? Do you think adding it in now will suddenly give TOR a rise in sub numbers to make it worth it? Doesn't seem likely.
It is not too late when they promised the content. No change in affection is required for current relationships...and frankly, the old "majority rules" argument is problematic. To be charitable, I will not go into great detail as to how much the "straight, white, male" crowd is unthinkingly given preference (privilege) in every facet of modern life.

Delivering on your product promises is beneficial in the fact that you keep players that you would have lost who will , in turn, happily tell friends who left, who will likely come back. It is better than where they are at right now. This is turning into a public relations nightmare for them, if they don't deliver they lose more numbers and get no opportunity to rehabilitate a sullied reputation. The calculus is simple to make. Do the right thing, keep and add people. Don't do the right thing, lose people and reputation.

~J

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.22.2012 , 08:35 AM | #4369
Or at least tell the players. That's where much of my anger and confusion lies with this. Besides, it isn't about the sub numbers. I'll be honest; I really feel that more people would come try out this game if they put SGRs in.

And I know for a fact some players would renew their sub if they put SGRs in. That's neither here nor there for me at this point.

It really isn't about that. This has become, for me, about them addressing the player base at all. Even if it's just to say "No" or "Not for a long time." That's the point many are missing. We all have good ideas as to why they have not included it up til now, and ideas why it might never come to pass.

It's that EAware needs to say something public to the player base. Put their money where their mouth is, and at least say what in Hades is going on. For goodness sakes, they addressed the Guild Ships recently, even if all they told the players, "Not in the foreseeable feature."

While I'm here:

I doubt we'll see any answer from BW before the end of the year. However, I think that if we hadn't started altering the media, they would have let this slide as long as possible. Thanks to our efforts, I wouldn't be surprised if we heard something on around Jan 7th, when Joveth returns from his holiday vacation.

So yes, I do feel like everything is helping make a difference. I knew when I started this late last month that the whole, "this year" statement (meaning within 2012) was hogwash. My goal was to try see if we could find a way to get any sort of answer by the first week of January. Athena be with me, but I think we're moving right along and I can see that happening.

One goal of mine has been achieved. The press and the players are talking about this again. We aren't just shoved into some back corner of the swtor forums and left there. Now people are curious again. Even the ones that are "meh" on SGRs wonder why BW hasn't said a public word since March. EAware loves to talk about just anything else...but not about SGRs for The Old Republic to the pro-SGR players.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
12.22.2012 , 10:08 AM | #4370
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
So they implement SGR. Do I get the chance to redo all my companions relationships, or stuck with the options I had? By the sounds of it, I'd have to create all new characters, which with this games content, I really don't see the care to repeat the same storyline multiple times, even for a different AC.
Well, these are basic questions I wish they'd answer but they won't for some apparent reason.

I personally would re-roll certain ACs if certain companions became available...if not then 'meh', I won't bother with the content at all.

There are also ways in which those that maxed affection with said companions could be accommodated (ex: a reset on the companion's conversations so they can be replayed without affection gain/loss).

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Wouldn't the time best be spent for the majority of players on just new content period? New quests on planets, so a player can take multiple generic quest routes to get levels, instead of the same generic quests?
It would be new content for those that want this. I've never done a OGRA in game so my experience of a SGRA and a romance in general is definitely new.

Plus, they've added new content for a "minority" of players many times in the past.

If the are adding new companions for this content it would definitely be "new". Even if they just write it in with existing companions, the SGRA will apparently be different from the OGRA so I would consider it "new" content.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Do you think adding it in now will suddenly give TOR a rise in sub numbers to make it worth it? Doesn't seem likely.
Who knows but why do SGRAs have to live up to this standard? Did the new WZ give them a significant rise in sub numbers to make it worth it? Did the new Cartel Market items they added? Space missions? etc.