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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.18.2012 , 06:04 PM | #4181
Quote: Originally Posted by Joushigun View Post
Oh, I kind of wrote that badly. I meant that I'd move on somewhere. Honestly, I'd rather they included SGRA's, but if they don't, then I'll go somewhere else where they either have no romances or have SGRAs.
<nods> Gotcha. And it seems such a simple thing for them to baulk over. Hot-button or not, Bioware (as a whole) has a history of saying to the entitled heteronormative crowd, 'No, stuff it, we're putting it in because more options to include more people is just BETTER, yo,' and when it comes right down to the core of it there's no good reason Bioware: Austin can't do the same.

Edmonton gets it, and whether people have issues with the way they've implemented such things isn't as important a point as that they've taken steps to be inclusive. Austin needs to step up to the plate, and they need to throw this weird and pointless gag order in the bin.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.18.2012 , 06:05 PM | #4182
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
The Sims is a (former) Maxis and (current) The Sims Studio game series.
<nods> Currently EA/Maxis.
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Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
12.18.2012 , 06:07 PM | #4183
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
The Sims is a (former) Maxis and (current) The Sims Studio game series.
Yes, but EA Games is also the guys who distribute TOR, and LGB inclusion in The Sims started back with The Sims 1: Hot Date.
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
12.18.2012 , 06:09 PM | #4184
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
<nods> Gotcha. And it seems such a simple thing for them to baulk over. Hot-button or not, Bioware (as a whole) has a history of saying to the entitled heteronormative crowd, 'No, stuff it, we're putting it in because more options to include more people is just BETTER, yo,' and when it comes right down to the core of it there's no good reason Bioware: Austin can't do the same.

Edmonton gets it, and whether people have issues with the way they've implemented such things isn't as important a point as that they've taken steps to be inclusive. Austin needs to step up to the plate, and they need to throw this weird and pointless gag order in the bin.
So far, no one has really made an issue about this, but it can be made into a major issue if someone wants to, and that could hurt BioWare, EA Games, and Lucas Film.
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

coruscantdweller's Avatar


coruscantdweller
12.18.2012 , 08:53 PM | #4185
Hey everyone,

I've been following this thread for quite some time, as I'm eagerly awaiting/hoping for SGRAs. I believe that if a game features OGRAs, it should also feature SGRAs, period.

I see many posts in this thread that seem to be very reasonable, well researched, and well informed; I presume the regular posters here know much more about this subject than I do, and I feel like maybe I'm missing something important; allow me to explain my reasoning, and you guys can tell me if there are holes in it.

I've been getting the impression that many of you are worried about SGRAs being scrapped or delayed, but given what I've read, I would think the evidence would point to other, less tragic outcomes. I could be wrong, and please feel free to poke holes in the following few paragraphs if there's something I don't seem to understand.

Bioware employees have said that SGRAs are coming, and no EA/Bioware employee has said anything to indicate that SGRAs been scrapped or delayed. The last word we have from Bioware was a tweet from Hal Hood, which confirmed that SGRAs were coming with Makeb, and was quickly deleted, presumably after Mr. Hood was reprimanded by his superiors. It's obvious that anyone with any information is under some kind of gag order from EA/Bioware, but any information that has slipped out has been good news. They did break the promise of delivering the full story before the end of 2012, but they haven't released any more story content yet, and Bioware did say that SGRAs were coming with the full story.

I believe that EA/Bioware should be more open about their plans for the game in general, but I see two plausible reasons (which could both be true simultaneously) why EA/Bioware would issue a company-wide gag order on this subject.

Reason #1: They don't want to reveal anything that they believe is a story spoiler, and they have a different definition of what a story spoiler is than we do. It's possible they have a great big manual of company policy that is difficult to change without cutting through a great deal of red tape, and that manual has a strict definition of "story spoiler" that isn't based on common sense.

Reason #2: They want to wait until the last minute to reveal SGRA content, because they want to avoid taking preemptive flak from bigoted activist groups; it's possible they're keeping SGRA content secret until the last minute specifically to protect SGRAs - imagine if hate groups found a way to influence EA's stock price, causing investors to put pressure on EA's top management to scrap anything "controversial" - I think such a basic issue of human rights shouldn't be controversial in the first place, but EA investors might consider anything that affects stock prices to be "controversial." If my last sentence is true, then EA's top management is simply doing the best they can to make sure SGRAs make it into the game before EA gets targeted by hate groups. EA's top management must know that once they add SGRAs into the game, they can't remove them without taking even more flak from reasonable people, so they want to get SGRAs into the game, because they know it's the right thing to do, and they want to do it "under the radar" so the investors can't cry for their removal in the event that hate groups find a way to target EA financially.

If my reasoning holds true, then SGRAs are coming, and we can all rest easy about this issue. But, as I said before, I could be missing something big, and there are a bunch of posters who are active in this thread who seem to be very well versed on the details of this issue, so please correct me if I'm wrong about anything.

Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
12.18.2012 , 09:12 PM | #4186
coruscantdweller,

For some of us, they could ask us to remain quite. Honestly, we're fed up with this, and just telling us would be better. Thing is, groups like One Million Moms and The American Family Association will make their lives hell anyway. Unfortunately for BioWare, I'm to the point where I am just ready to walk away...but I'm not going quietly. I'm not just some random LGBTQA player....I have a rather strong voice and I wonder how BioWare would like an all out fight from the LGBTQA blogosphere at this point.

BioWare has done a great job with LGB Inclusiveness. Unfortunately, when you pride yourself on being inclusive and then fail, even the slightest failure is enough to tarnish your reputation.
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
12.18.2012 , 09:41 PM | #4187
Quote: Originally Posted by Joushigun View Post
BioWare has done a great job with LGB Inclusiveness. Unfortunately, when you pride yourself on being inclusive and then fail, even the slightest failure is enough to tarnish your reputation.
Again I would point out that the SW:TOR division of BW has no history of being inclusive as they are completely separate from the rest of the BW teams.

But even if we just take BW or even EA as a whole, simply failing to be inclusive in one game isn't a terrible thing considering their history, being that the game is their flagship MMO does make it worse though, given that they like to parade around the fact they feel they are inclusive makes it still worse, given the fact they let it 'slip' in video game site articles that TOR actually does have SGRA content makes that even worse, considering the fact that the posters in this thread have go to said sites and get them to correct the article makes that even worse, and the real kicker is the treatment of the community throughout all of this and the attitude from EA/BW that we don't even exist back here that just makes the bottom fall out of the whole issue.

So it isn't just BW-Austin's failures in living up to the purported philosophies of EA and BW as game developers, its the entirety of the situation taken as a whole that really makes this a black mark on EA and BW's reputation as inclusive developers.

Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
12.18.2012 , 09:46 PM | #4188
Nozybidaj,

Very true, and now the question is, do they really want GLAAD on their case, or worse, the LGBTQ Blogosphere? That could be about to happen depending on answers that have been asked for.

Because, honestly, I'm tired of waiting without anyone saying it will happen and specifically when.
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.18.2012 , 09:51 PM | #4189
Okay, seriously....Yule needs and come and go now. I swear doom and gloom are contagious, even for me.

Nothing personal, just going through a very rough week physically. I'll explain in a bit.

The fact it was from a viewer email was listed in text as part of the podcast description. Since I wrote it, that's fine by me. I didn't want my handle attached in any way, shape, or form directly.

Guys, I actually talked to the people behind the podcast yesterday (after it had been recorded.) I spent a little over an hour chatting with the two main hosts. I wanted to make sure things were clear and we agreed on a lot of points. I obtained their public Mumble info and talked to them yesterday afternoon. I care about you guys and our representation on this matter.

I've been listening to the podcast for the first time as I type this, so I can offer my thoughts in a somewhat coherent manner. While I contacted them yesterday, I didn't get a sneak peek or anything like that. Nor did I desire one.

They told me that I "read their minds," and said, "exactly what they were thinking." Deidre aka Sunshine has been one of the supporters and lurkers for SGRs for quite some time. Part of this was their speculation and they did say as such.

They are very passionate players, and they are pro-SGRs. They explained to me where they were going with the Disney angle. Jeff and Deidre, two of the hosts, are husband and wife, so it wasn't too hard to get in touch with them.

At the end of the podcast, they readdress Disney. They know that Disney is not anti-gay, and that they wouldn't be surprised if they saw Disney do more with LucasArts and LGBT gaming content. They also said that will be interested in doing an update down the road.

I was impressed that they did do some homework and actually come and read these threads prior to the podcast.

With my follow up yesterday, I did let them know it was about the silence, not so much lack of implementation at this point.. I do disagree with them that they didn't have enough time, as I think that they had more than enough time. It's not like Hall Hood had to start this from scratch. I will let them know as such tomorrow or Thursday.

They were making sure our case was heard while still trying to maintain some sense of neutrality. That's what I want at this point. An article from someone that was pro-SGRs but not as emotionally invested as we are.

I'm honestly not sure why there is so much hate towards them. They are really balanced about their viewpoints overall. I don't 100% agree with everything they said, but they do have good points.

When it comes to the Cathar, I'm not offended. I'm still playing DA: O, as my dwarf rogue. I was rather taken aback when the first male SGR option came up as an elf, which I thought was a pretty bad stereotype. So I'm not sure how Cathars would be any worse.

Plus, TORWars was not saying that this was the way to go. Or even that was the way they wanted to go. It was tossing around ideas, both good and bad.

Please take a few breaths and re listen. They really are on our side with this.

I knew much of what they were going to do and how they were going to approach this.

I care a ton about this and I do believe in follow-ups.

They did not know about the gay Mando couple though.

I promise they are good people. After everything it took to get here, I wanted to make sure we were in good hands.

I do agree with them about something. Be patient as well as be impatient. Don't be satisfied with our answer and keep working towards it. Yet, some of this really will take a bit. If you listen, Deidre was not trying to offend us at all.

We've got the stew on the stove (if you will) with all the ingredients in place. Now it needs some time to simmer and cook. In that respect, we do need to have some patience. I have a feeling that they are going to address this after the New Year. I'm not stopping, since I want to get that podcast circulating, but I am slowing down a little.

Please bear in mind GLAAD knows what BW/EA pulled on us. Remember, they do care and they are watching this (and EA/BW) with a microscope. They did say that they were pursuing this again after the New Year. Frankly, with the holidays and all the madness floating about as of late, I'm willing to be a little more patient. I have zero reason to doubt GLAAD at all on this one.

With the, "having an alien so it's not really female" comment, that was not the opinion of TORWars. That's something they simply thought that BW would say and do to appease the anti-SGR crowd. They do not say that is how it should be done. They are being cynical of how BW might handle this just as much as we are.


I plan on trying to talk to them on Mumble again tomorrow. Please give some constructive feedback for me to give to them. Their Mumble info is also easily found on the TORWars site if you want to (politely) talk to them directly.

I've also talked to other members of their guild. They were all open and even a little surprised that BW-Austin is being so quiet. They are a good bunch and I had fun talking to all of them.

Please don't rip on the TORWars team very hard. I have plans for this podcast now that it's out.

I do agree that the co-host Brian sounds like he didn't read the mail at all and I'll mention that.

I had a lot of blood drawn today, so I can't type so well. I might have a fairly serious medical condition after a severe weight loss. I've been typing this in small chunks over the last 90 minutes.

I know it's so hard to stay upbeat, and I know we all still feel very insulted by EA/BW.

I have the next couple of steps forming in my mind....trust me.

Try not to be so gloomy! I kinda need the cheering up and I have a good feeling in my gut about the future.

I can't be the only cheerleader here. I love helping and leading you guys, but I can't be the only one that's optimistic. It's hard to for me, but I manage. I need your help in staying positive.

Do I think we'll magically get an answer? No, I still don't. Do I think finally that BW-Austin will have their double standards exposed? Yes, but it's up to us to make sure that happens. And yes, I have a plan.

Try to smile for me. That is a big one guys. We needed to first get the word out.

I'm not sure if you saw it, but they do do interviews with the bigwigs. That doesn't mean that they'll jump at Hickman (or whoever) to demand to answer about SGRs. To me, what it does means is a lot of people are going to hear this podcast. That'll mean more people aware of it....more people that we can encourage to write to the press.

I have my own theories about the answer. In the meantime, don't get mad or depressed. Get even; write the blogs you need to. I'll go into more later.

EA's stock is in bad shape to be true. For now, I'm going to state for the record that I think it will have no impact on SGRs. I honestly think that it really is coming with Makeb, they've just screwed around with us for a myriad of potential reasons.

All stupid.

So very...very...very stupid.

It does make me worried about anything post-Makeb though. That's when I think the first impact of EA's condition in the stock market is going to seep through. I don't think the whole Yule days scare is helping though. The 21st really just needs to come and go already. Too easy to see the bad side of everything.

Take care guys. Please stay strong for me.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.18.2012 , 10:10 PM | #4190
Yeah, I didn't have any problem with the podcast, other than the weird "alien and therefore not really female" comment. ***, so my female Chiss is not really female? damn. It's good that people are talking about this as many places as possible.
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