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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

natashina's Avatar


natashina
11.29.2012 , 05:44 AM | #3371
**delurks**

Wow. I'm gone for less than a day to my first raid and come back to all this.

There are two parts of the discrimination debate that does make sense in my opinion.

Again, this is just my opinion and my perspective. It does not mean I'm right, so please don't utterly pick apart this post.

First, the nature of the Gabe PvP video and the deleted Tweet by Hall Hood. I recently had the privilege of joining a great guild a couple of days ago and I was talking to them about this thread and this topic on mumble. I explained Stephen Reid's and Daniel Erickson's comments, and that no mod or dev has been officially allowed to say squat since the Guild Summit.

My guildies pointed out that those guys left the company and I told them we hadn't had any word from any current employee about this. I told them about Gabe's comment about SGRs, Hall Hood confirming it via Twitter only to have the Tweet quickly deleted. My guildies agreed that they way that this is being handled is very weird and unfair. They do not post on the forums and are pretty neutral when it comes to the idea of SGRs in general. Even they thought this was handled in such as way that it does not reflect well, to say the least. Most of them are one of those rare breed of subscribers that never took a break. They've seen examples of how information is poorly handled in this game.

If they thought that this was messed up, then I suspect something is truly wrong here.

I can understand not wanting to give away spoilers, but it has certainly moved beyond that.

The second is on a more personal note. On 10/30, Disney was confirmed to have buying out LucasArts as well as all studio properties. Naturally, this led to a ton of ill-thought out posts going, "Disney is anti-gay!"

I put together the SGR FAQ, so I figured why not do some research to back it up. So I did the research on "Gay Day," Disney offering up the wedding packages to all couples including same sex ones, their policy on offering benefits for same sex couples and also the Marvel comic that had a same gender couple on it. I always believe in, "Links/screenshots or it didn't happen," so I made sure the links were viable. I put it up on page 282 on Halloween.

Well Uluain opened a thread in the General forums called, "Did I hear this right?" about Makeb. It was considered legit when mods starting using it as one of the redirects for SGR related topics (prior to, this the only redirect, with any other topics on the discussion shunted back here.) I decided to put that question up there. Now, I was warned by Uluain via PM (and it means a lot even a month later ) that it would probably be taken down due to the perception that it was political. However, after looking over the forum rules, I made sure that there is no political references in my post.

Bare in mind, this is unlike the FAQ, which explicitly talks about Lucas' contribution's to opposing Prop 8 and linking to the list to contributors.

Which had been sent to the mods multiple times.

So I bit the bullet and posted the info about Disney.

Guess what? Yanked within less than 8 hrs. I know I was warned, so I decided to contact Alison Berryman via PM, politely asking what about my post was so political and how I might avoid getting a post like that yanked in the future.

No response at all. And I know they read these things; I had sent her a PM wishing her a Happy Halloween the day before which she responded to.

So I was never given a reason stated by the forum rules why that post was deleted. I would have accepted just about any answer, so long as I was given one at all.

Never once did I get any sort of answer. Oh and the post in question? Still here on this thread, which I was going to add to the SGRA FAQ. I would have added it in about a hundred pages from now.

Here is the original post.

The mods claim that they read this thread. They claim they are really listening. Again, they have also been sent copies of the FAQ multiple times by posters like Tatile and Uluain. So the overtly political stuff has already been in there.

Suddenly, in the General forums, talking about Disney's inclusion of the LGBT community in the workplace as well as for it's customers, it's considered "too political" and taken down. All I did differently was added links and quotes to back my info up to make things clear. I know it was considered as such because a couple of posters had informed me that it was a "political statement" (and let me know they were reporting me for that.)

However, it's allowed to stay here? Is it because it's our little corner of the forums? How...sweet of them to give us that?

Multiple threads are allowed on other features, but we've so far gotten only two, with all others related to this topic shut down. And I don't want to hear, "Well, they are trying to keep the trolling minimal due to the nature of SGRs. They are protecting us, right?" It comes off a chicken thing to do. Rather than face the people that don't want SGRs and will say horrific things (and I do mean horrific...man one of those threads got really bad,) they've shut them all down and up to about 6 weeks ago, would only send them to a back corner of the forums. Not a lot of players look anywhere but the General forums.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm ripping on the mods. I'm not attempting to and most of them are very hard working good people. They are giving us what they can and they are still at the mercy of their bosses.

It's the ones the dictate the flow of information that have made it extremely ridiculous for everyone involved. For every interview they do about their inclusion of the LGBT community (I think the last one was a couple of weeks ago,) the more utterly bizarre this whole situation is in ToR.


That whole thing screams of some discrimination to me. And I am not one to cry wolf, to cry that at a drop of a hat. I do believe gamers in particular can get really self entitled. I know I can be as guilty as anyone else of that, but I know this isn't the case here.

I got really angry about that whole handling of the post and my questions about it. Rather than start fights with the mods, I bowed out of the thread for awhile. I maxed my sniper, ended up in a raiding guild, and I'm gearing her up. I don't post here as much, but I do read this thread daily.

Given the way this whole thing has been handled from start to present day, I can't blame people for feeling that this is the case.

Do I feel that way about EA/BW as a whole? Absolutely not. I think what they say about LGBT rights for the employees and their customers is quite true and they do believe it. I honestly do think the LGBT community as a whole is important to them.

From my perspective, I'll maintain that they are very gunshy to put it into a MMO format. And I think that's problem numero uno right there.

See, I never knew the ME or DA series even had SGRs. Those are single player games that it's easy to overlook and I never played either series(I finally got smart and started DA:O recently.) When you have one of the most expensive (if not the most expensive) games of all time, that's really high profile. Someone thought it was too risky to put in...and decided to leave it that way for now.

Note I said for now. I still believe that it is coming and I still believe that it'll be good. I don't think it's cut and I don't think this was done with maliciousness. Apathy and fear of backlash sure, but not with malice. In my opinion, with this stone cold silence and odd double standards, I can understand why discrimination has been talked about so much here after all.

Just my two cred. I have been enjoying all sides of this conversation and it's nice to see an intelligent discussion about this subject from new posters again (Gah, very important edit done there! Amazing what two words can make a difference with. My apologizes. )

And now, back to my sniper!

PS: Things seems to have gotten way too personal guys. It's getting very heated in here, and I don't want to see some well thought out posts removed.

We need to remember we are passionate gamers that all want this content, and we are all adults.

When it comes to getting personal, I'm gonna give a quote from The Dude.

"Be cool."

MoobooMagoo's Avatar


MoobooMagoo
11.29.2012 , 09:38 AM | #3372
I don't think Bioware is being discriminatory. I think they may be relegating this discussion to only a couple of places because they think that will cause less hate speech, but they are going to have to face that crowd eventually when they release this content.
Explorer: 80% Achiever: 60% Killer: 47% Socializer: 13%

Daniel Erickson and the Amazing Technicolor Dream-Abs

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
11.29.2012 , 11:45 AM | #3373
Quote: Originally Posted by Ixum View Post
Fun romances on the way!
"We have plenty of devious new foes, deadly conflicts, and fun romances on the way"
Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11...ood/#continued
Probably more flirts/one night stands for heterosexual male PCs b/c the game is sorely lacking in that area.
Node guarder

Chaac's Avatar


Chaac
11.29.2012 , 11:59 AM | #3374
Personally I think it's pretty clear that they're being discriminatory. This content has not been handled in the same manner as other content. It is not given close to the same treatment on the forums, is restricted in the number of threads allowed to discuss it in a way that no other topic is and is completely ignored when it makes up the highest percentage in threads asking the community to list questions.

I may be wrong but I'm sure I remember a pm someone posted where a community rep stated that discussion of this content was handled differently because of the subject matter and the potential for the topic to receive negative comments. I'll have to have a scout through the thread and see if I can find it, but at any rate that shows that they are not treating it the same. Regardless of whether it is done under the belief of protection it is still discrimination.
Wedge: "I don't like this notion of dovin basal mines that pursue you."
Han: "Me, either. I'm going to draft a strongly worded letter to the Yuuzhan Vong high commander and insist he stop using them."

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.29.2012 , 12:50 PM | #3375
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Probably more flirts/one night stands for heterosexual male PCs b/c the game is sorely lacking in that area.
That was pretty much what I thought when I saw that quote. They only have what like 30 existing romance options (counting all the one night stands and such). I can hardly see how they get by with just that. Its a travesty I tell you.

Artanisia's Avatar


Artanisia
11.29.2012 , 02:06 PM | #3376
Recent Tweet from Hall Hood:

Hello to all my new followers! My interview on Massively has understandably sparked lots of questions about future #SWTOR content. I'm excited to answer these questions, but please understand there's only so much I'm permitted to reveal right now. Stay tuned.

Combine that with the other quote from the Massively interview. I know, I should be a jaded cynic by now, but dammit I want to believe that it means what I am reading into it.

Infir's Avatar


Infir
11.29.2012 , 02:11 PM | #3377
I might be too much of an optimist, but I'm still pretty hopeful for Makeb. While the confirmations were hushed up, the statement was never retracted, either.
{((o))ﮗﮉﭽﭰﭵۻﮖۼﭦﮀﮃﮆ‖}Ξ{{ )

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.29.2012 , 03:37 PM | #3378
The Livestream was funny, they went on about every feature they talked about at the Guild Summit, but not SGRAs, Makeb was talked about as well, and they claimed it isn't immediate but not far off.

MoogleNut's Avatar


MoogleNut
11.29.2012 , 03:49 PM | #3379
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
The Livestream was funny, they went on about every feature they talked about at the Guild Summit, but not SGRAs, Makeb was talked about as well, and they claimed it isn't immediate but not far off.
Yeah, it was pretty much as expected - although it was nice to see Ms Berryman banning and deleting anti-sgra comments so that was a bright spot at least

Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
11.29.2012 , 04:20 PM | #3380
Quote:
Q: What is the status of Makeb and when can we expect it? Schubert: We just did a playthrough of the Imperial story this week...
Emphasis mine. Looks like Makeb won't be true class stories, but rather a global storyline. Not sure what that indicates, if anything, about SGRAs. I'm wondering if Makeb might be closer to the scale of Section X than the true story expansion we've been hoping for.