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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

DarkTrooperV's Avatar


DarkTrooperV
11.28.2012 , 07:49 AM | #3331
That is what SGR means. "Same Gender Romance".

But like the poster a few posts before. I am quickly losing hope. With the two Doctor's gone and most of the people who made this game, it just isn't Bioware anymore. It's just EA. And I really don't want to say this. I don't want to be defeatist, but I don't think we are going to get the SGR's. There has been little in the way of mentioning anything save for the monotonous PR spin of "We can't comment on that at this time." I've tried to see it from EA's side. I just can't anymore. I've held off on my Sith Inquisitor because I want to romance Ashara. I want to romance Kira. But I'm really afraid that's not going to happen at this rate.
The Joker: They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these... these civilized people, they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.28.2012 , 09:45 AM | #3332
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
Not too mention they are also working on the new Mass Effect series ! Bioware is really busy atm.

To be honest , I thought by now that this would have already been put in with them talking about it as early as a month after the game went live .
Not to stir the pot or hark on Bioware....
Actually the first mention they were thinking about doing SGRA content was about 6 months prior to launch. Or a good year and a half ago.

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.28.2012 , 09:57 AM | #3333
Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
Actually the first mention they were thinking about doing SGRA content was about 6 months prior to launch. Or a good year and a half ago.
Seems to have been a fleeting thought.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

JCisneros's Avatar


JCisneros
11.28.2012 , 10:55 AM | #3334
There are two types of discrimination, active and passive. Active discrimination is what you see daily and notice. The anti-gay commentary of Dan Cathy (Chick-fil-a), the purveyors of "gay conversion therapy," and the anti-marriage groups such as NOM are higher profile precisely because they are vocal and active. Passive discrimination is simply taking no action and doing nothing (e.g. community managers regurgitating a thread that the higher ups are IGNORING or refusing to make any progress reports about). Both are bad and both are discriminatory.

Talking about it makes us feel better, but it is ultimately meaningless. It allows the publisher and community managers to SAY they are open to discussion, covering their respective rear ends from the worst of community blowback. In effect it allows them to prolong the development curve without consequences they truly understand. The community has two options:

1. Quit the game, cancel subscriptions and not reward the company for its patent dishonesty about this matter (financial consequences).

2. Organize an active effort to publicize their broken promises through a combination of going to these developer summits and getting everyone to ask the same question until they realize they cannot push off answering the question in detail any longer and focused actions that expose the company to bad publicity (e.g. a major letter writing campaign to the main stream gaming press). (public embarassment)

If this means so much to us, why are we allowing ourselves to be herded into an eternal "waiting area"? EA/BW has dropped the publicity ball so often I simply do not trust them to keep their half-baked promises. The bitter truth is they do not intend to add SGRAs at this late a date in game development, they are just playing out the string until the development curve renders this whole thread moot.

Frankly, it's embarassing when the most cutting edge company in PC game development becomes timid after initially developing a great reputation of addressing LGBT issues.

JC

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.28.2012 , 12:39 PM | #3335
I agree JC, I don't think BW ever intended to add this content. I suggested months ago organizing some kind of push to get the word out about this issue but I don't think the gaming press would be all that sympathetic. We would likely have to seek out GLBT friendly organizations with a public presence to help bring light to the situation. Short of that it is pretty obvious BW is more than content to continue doing and saying nothing till the issue simply fades away.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.28.2012 , 12:49 PM | #3336
Quote: Originally Posted by JCisneros View Post
2. Organize an active effort to publicize their broken promises through a combination of going to these developer summits and getting everyone to ask the same question until they realize they cannot push off answering the question in detail any longer and focused actions that expose the company to bad publicity (e.g. a major letter writing campaign to the main stream gaming press). (public embarassment)
As much as I would like to contact magazines and blogs about this, the evidence we have is very little. We have Stephen Reid's comments, Daniel Erickson's comments and Gabe Amatengelo's comments, but none of those have been transcribed to this site officially - both Mr. Erickson's and Mr. Amatengelo's comments exist in video form, yes, but Mr. Reid's comments have been removed with the removal of the beta forums, and thus all we have there are copy-pasta forms. Much of our belief in this content hinges on EA and Bioware's previous releases and their (very) public stances on LGBT persons and content. So, our position to gain anything credible in magazines and blog posts would be having to prove that EA/Bioawre's previous stances on LGBT content is applicable to this game (through the aforementioned comments), that the discussion of this content has been handled in a discriminatory manner and that, whether deliberately or through coincidental neglect, LGBT players (and LGBT ally players) have been discriminated against through no representation or meaningful engagement.

This would all also have to be presented in a manner which is detached and without emotive language (as much as one can muster when discussing possible discrimination), so that the key point is brought across, but without sounding like the people who want this content are being overly demanding.

Personally that's not something I feel I can do.

JCisneros's Avatar


JCisneros
11.28.2012 , 01:19 PM | #3337
It is difficult Tatile. In real life I am an academic who studies the history of sexuality, put into simpler terms without giving you my full taxonomy, I am an LGBT historian who works on questions in the Medieval and Early Modern periods.

Perhaps the hardest thing to come to grips with is the fact that objectivity does not really exist. The best you can do as a scholar is to present the best argument you can while fairly presenting the other side's argument.

I am all for embarassing the hell out of EA/Bioware on this matter and effectively they SHOULD be ashamed of backtracking on presenting a world where both opposite sex attraction and same sex attraction actually happen. I went, in a span of two years from being a loyal BW customer to not being interested in giving them any of my hard earned money until they actually have the guts to address this issue openly. I do not count outdated press releases as evidence of their good intentions, I expect to be given actual evidence that they are in an actual physical development stage and are on a real timeline. The excuse that they use is that to prematurely release such information might harm their competitive advantage; what competitive advantage? You only gain a competitive advantage when you do something the other company is not doing. Developing a strong relationship with the LGBT community would foster loyalty and bring more money into BW. It might even force the other powers that be in the industry to make moves to equalize sexual orientation portrayals in future games.

I expect the community managers to read this thread and not dismiss it as a minoritarian thread. Just because the LGBT community is a minority does not mean it should not be respected and communicated with.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.28.2012 , 01:33 PM | #3338
The Community Team doesn't read this thread, they just claim that they do.

For bringing this to public attention, I believe we've identified Kotaku and GamesIndustry.biz as potential first ports of call (Kotaku has covered SWTOR in the past and recently we had to correct a GamesIndustry article that incorrectly stated that SWTOR has same-sex options, which implies that that assumption is present in the game media community).

We could possibly contact Gawker, which does slightly more "niche" articles and, of course, The Penny Arcade Report, in consideration of the fact that they have run articles which look into the games industry and games industry reporting.

It's just a matter of collecting what evidence we have and then presenting that in an acceptable fashion :/

(Also, JC, your job sounds really interesting.)

JCisneros's Avatar


JCisneros
11.28.2012 , 02:35 PM | #3339
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
The Community Team doesn't read this thread, they just claim that they do.

For bringing this to public attention, I believe we've identified Kotaku and GamesIndustry.biz as potential first ports of call (Kotaku has covered SWTOR in the past and recently we had to correct a GamesIndustry article that incorrectly stated that SWTOR has same-sex options, which implies that that assumption is present in the game media community).

We could possibly contact Gawker, which does slightly more "niche" articles and, of course, The Penny Arcade Report, in consideration of the fact that they have run articles which look into the games industry and games industry reporting.

It's just a matter of collecting what evidence we have and then presenting that in an acceptable fashion :/

(Also, JC, your job sounds really interesting.)
That has to be the first time I have ever had my job called "interesting."

I think the first step is to gather all of videos, youtube feeds, quotes and such over the past year +. Quotes from community managers, developers, senior developers and management would be highly useful in this process. Throughout the process we should have a set of goals. Just to get the ball rolling I will suggest one below and ask for feedback from the thread participants as to what we want as the LGBT community within the game environment.

1. Clearer communication and direct feedback (non-negotiable) - No trade secrets need be revealed for this to be practical. What we need is a statement of if indeed they are developing SGRA content and an approximate time frame to release of said content. Specifics, not generalities from the company are very important here. A release number would be desirable.

It is important when approaching these press sources to have a set of goals and a clear message as to what we see as potential solutions. We also should present reasonable soultions, nothing could be worse than to get attention and not at least have one or two workable solutions to suggest.

I set the ball rolling and I am now subscribed to this thread...

JC

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.28.2012 , 02:44 PM | #3340
Confirmation of this content still being "a thing" is, to me at least, our highest priority. We've had nothing since the Guild Summit (unless you count Mr. Amatengelo's confusion) and Bioware is not acknowledging the question is even relevant.

Secondly we have the more emotional, customer-interaction issue of Bioware's handling of this content (I don't know if this is an appropriate question, but it is important for consumer/company relations) and how the people who want this content feel they have been treated (i.e. Does Bioware think they have handled the discussion of this content and the queries from the community in a respectful and sensitive manner? This would be particularly interesting if you've seen Uluain's comments on how he felt the subject was being treated by the CommunitySupport squad on the forum at large.)

I guess another question that would be quite "big" in terms of equality and representation would be why Bioware did not feel the need to have this content ready for launch.