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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
11.27.2012 , 01:53 PM | #3321
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
Yes, guys, I understand the importance of our questions. Yes, I have multiple classes I refuse to level or even create until we have some answers. I get it, I really do. I want this as much as anyone. It's just not very fair to turn what is most likely just a disappointing development snafu into a malicious case of discrimination.
I would argue that there is "discrimination" when comparing OGRAs and SGRAs in game. One is a possible option and was included at launch...the other not. They have treated these differently and have treated those that want to play OGRAs versus SGRAs differently (mainly by actually providing the option for the former). There's not necessarily a malicious intent behind this but it is what it is.

Now, if you are thinking of "discrimination" as "I hate gays and want to screw them over by not adding SGRAs" then no, I don't believe that's the case either.
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.27.2012 , 02:00 PM | #3322
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
I'd like to see a compilation of all developer/CM communications to the community about HK-51 in the time frame of Launch until the official announcement of his inclusion in Section X. That would be a pretty direct comparison. Unfortunately, I unsubscribed to wait for SGRAs during most of that time, so I don't really know how it was handled. I'd be pretty surprised if they did much beyond tease that he was coming.
Not shortly after HK-51 was announced, it came to light that players would need (and this was reported in a magazine, then confirmed on site) a level 50 character and a character of "mid-level" of the opposite faction, on the same server. This allowed players to make decisions about their play, informed of how those decisions might impact their ability to acquire HK-51 when he was released. Little more than that was said until he dropped on the PTS, but given that that information is similar to what we need to know about SGRA's, it's... interesting.

The information is similar to the fact that it affected people's decisions of the class/es they need to roll in order to see the content they wanted. HK-51 is available to all classes, that was made clear from the start. We don't know if SGRA's will be made available to all classes. HK-51 would be available, regardless of quests - we don't know if SGRA's will be available to those who have progressed past meeting their intended romance partner or if SGRA's will be applied retroactively. We knew HK-51 was a companion droid from the HK line - and this admittedly a stretch - we don't know which companions (if any) will be available for SGRA.

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.27.2012 , 02:45 PM | #3323
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
I would argue that there is "discrimination" when comparing OGRAs and SGRAs in game. One is a possible option and was included at launch...the other not. They have treated these differently and have treated those that want to play OGRAs versus SGRAs differently (mainly by actually providing the option for the former). There's not necessarily a malicious intent behind this but it is what it is.

Now, if you are thinking of "discrimination" as "I hate gays and want to screw them over by not adding SGRAs" then no, I don't believe that's the case either.
Maliciousness and intent are really irrelevant when the discrimination still exists. Whether we have no SGRA's because they were complete idiots when developing companion romances and just didn't think about it or because someone up the decision making chain is a giant bigot (I actually think given all the evidence this is more likely) the fact remains either way we still have no SGRA's in the game a year out from launch and nothing on the horizon for the foreseeable future.

This is baseline class story content that without question should have been in the game day 1. My Jedi Knight has been sitting in Coruscant for nearly 11 months now* because I am unable to play my class story. I can't rationalize any way this is seen as acceptable by anyone.

*Actually coming back after being gone so long I just went ahead and deleted said character and started over. Point still stands though.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
11.27.2012 , 03:27 PM | #3324
Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
This is baseline class story content that without question should have been in the game day 1. My Jedi Knight has been sitting in Coruscant for nearly 11 months now* because I am unable to play my class story. I can't rationalize any way this is seen as acceptable by anyone.
Well, I don't think it's acceptable (I have characters I want to play as well but must wait for more information on this).

I was just pointing out that discrimination isn't always explicit and done with malicious intent.
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TheLittleTpot's Avatar


TheLittleTpot
11.27.2012 , 04:11 PM | #3325
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Not shortly after HK-51 was announced, it came to light that players would need (and this was reported in a magazine, then confirmed on site) a level 50 character and a character of "mid-level" of the opposite faction, on the same server. This allowed players to make decisions about their play, informed of how those decisions might impact their ability to acquire HK-51 when he was released. Little more than that was said until he dropped on the PTS, but given that that information is similar to what we need to know about SGRA's, it's... interesting.

The information is similar to the fact that it affected people's decisions of the class/es they need to roll in order to see the content they wanted. HK-51 is available to all classes, that was made clear from the start. We don't know if SGRA's will be made available to all classes. HK-51 would be available, regardless of quests - we don't know if SGRA's will be available to those who have progressed past meeting their intended romance partner or if SGRA's will be applied retroactively. We knew HK-51 was a companion droid from the HK line - and this admittedly a stretch - we don't know which companions (if any) will be available for SGRA.
Hopefully, they will give us similar details when they announce the patch that's going to include SGR's, or at the very least, shortly after. If this is the case though, my hope of them coming with Makeb is draining rapidly, as much of what that particular content-expansion includes has already been revealed. Then again, Makeb will likely be more of a pack than a patch so there is still at least some hope that it will come with SGR's. They have yet to reveal wether or not it will include a continuation of our personal storyline, after all.

I shall have to keep my hopes at a reasonable level, so as not to have them crushed too terribly. Worst-best case scenario would be if all of the current romance-choices become available for SGR, but I find out that I missed the opportunity to raise the flag with Ashara right after recruiting her. I ignored Andronikus's [flirt] options during his recruitment mission and after my first conversation with him on my ship, they stopped appearing completely. I just had my first on-ship conversation with Ashara and now I'm too terrified to play my inquisitor any further for fear of being faced with the prospect of having to reroll in order to get the chance to properly corrupt her impressionable mind.
I am NOT suffering from insanity. I'm enjoying every moment of it.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.27.2012 , 04:25 PM | #3326
Quote: Originally Posted by TheLittleTpot View Post
Hopefully, they will give us similar details when they announce the patch that's going to include SGR's, or at the very least, shortly after. If this is the case though, my hope of them coming with Makeb is draining rapidly, as much of what that particular content-expansion includes has already been revealed.
It's the 27th of November, there's no chance in hell that Makeb/SGRA's are coming out this year. Bioware hasn't even taken the time to say "Sorry, due to several changes around the studio post launch, Mr. Erickson's statement that SGRA's/new story content would be out this year is no longer valid", which is just... ugh.

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.27.2012 , 04:30 PM | #3327
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Well, I don't think it's acceptable (I have characters I want to play as well but must wait for more information on this).

I was just pointing out that discrimination isn't always explicit and done with malicious intent.
True. And while I don't know if it is malicious or not (discrimination is really always malicious whether it is done passively or aggressively far as I am concerned) there is certainly intent. Otherwise the content would have been there.

I honestly feel bad for all the folks that stuck around all these months waiting on BW to man up. Everyone would have been better from the start if BW had just been honest. As is usually the case in most circumstances, honesty would have saved everyone a lot of time and trouble. Well I guess EA wouldn't have been better off, when you are bleeding subs the way this game was trying to hold on to every last one possible is pretty important I guess.

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.27.2012 , 07:36 PM | #3328
As DarthHater says, BioWare is pretty bad at keeping secrets, everything leaks well before they announce it.
I also think BioWare is quite transparent in what they're working on. If they want to release information, then they release information, they generally release what we already know. When they're working on something they pick to publish the question and answer "we cannot comment at this time". When they're not working on something they don't pick the question. We know months in advance what is coming up, because they're working towards it. And answer community questions with no comment accordingly.

Makeb is probably coming this year. But in all probability it will be just Makeb, no class story content. And to BW that is story content, it's not class story content, but group story content, but it is still story content. I also expect we'll see the Cathar this year, probably with Makeb. They're going to want to release this content during the Holiday Season, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were Holiday Deals coming as well. A good way to get those F2Pers to buy some Coins. They've also said something about doing Races again, this is probably a hint at Holiday Races, it's been done so many times before in other MMOs and social games, I expect to see it here as well.

I don't expect SGRs soon, but I hope I'm wrong.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.28.2012 , 06:07 AM | #3329
Quote: Originally Posted by fabiyun View Post
As DarthHater says, BioWare is pretty bad at keeping secrets, everything leaks well before they announce it.
I also think BioWare is quite transparent in what they're working on. If they want to release information, then they release information, they generally release what we already know. When they're working on something they pick to publish the question and answer "we cannot comment at this time". When they're not working on something they don't pick the question. We know months in advance what is coming up, because they're working towards it. And answer community questions with no comment accordingly.
That does not make me feel better about this :/ Unless we run with the belief that Bioware:Austin isn't the "real" Bioware, because the "real" Bioware is off doing Dragon Age, which also doesn't bode well as we're relying on the "real" Bioware to be the one producing the SGRA content.

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.28.2012 , 07:42 AM | #3330
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
That does not make me feel better about this :/ Unless we run with the belief that Bioware:Austin isn't the "real" Bioware, because the "real" Bioware is off doing Dragon Age, which also doesn't bode well as we're relying on the "real" Bioware to be the one producing the SGRA content.
Not too mention they are also working on the new Mass Effect series ! Bioware is really busy atm.

To be honest , I thought by now that this would have already been put in with them talking about it as early as a month after the game went live .
Not to stir the pot or hark on Bioware....
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