Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Kharnis's Avatar


Kharnis
07.16.2012 , 07:16 PM | #311
Quote: Originally Posted by MusedMoose View Post
I apologize, Kharnis, for singling you out, but you provided a good example. You can claim that what BW says is no longer acceptable all you want, but it won't change a thing or make them give us info that they're not ready to give us. It comes off as saying "Do this or else", and when BW asks "Or else what?", there's nothing to back it up...
Hey, first, no apologies. I posted on a public forum, for everyone to see. If I didn't want someone calling me out on anything I say, then I shouldn't post. So don't worry. I'm in no way offended!

Now, as for the "no longer acceptable" portion of my post, you're right that what I say isn't going to change their minds. But it will change mine. And it's changing the minds of many others. I've already pointed out in another thread just how sterile the game is, and how the lack of "fluff" (i.e. non-raiding, non-PvP stuff) is contributing to it. There are a lot of people who agree with this belief (and I won't be so arrogant as to try to claim that it's me they're agreeing with. This is something that's been put forward for a while now), and they're starting to make their displeasure known.

And yet, Bioware still refuses to say anything. If anything, their communication with us has gotten worse, not better, since the layoffs, despite the promise by the Community Managers to improve communication with us. All we've heard from Bioware throughout development, and then beta, all the way to now, is "we can't talk about that," no matter what the subject is. It's left a great many of the community confused and wondering just what the direction of this game is. We have no idea what the devs' vision of the game is, because they will not talk to us.

It's been over a year since Stephen Reid made his promise that this specific feature was coming. And we know no more now than we did then. Sure, we have Daniel Erickson promising that they're coming "this year," but Daniel Erickson is rather...infamous for making statements that aren't quite accurate (the "subs are at the same level" interview, for instance). So now we're left to wonder: is this another case of him being "not quite precise enough" with his statement, or was he telling the truth? Is this new story (and the promised SGRA content) coming this year, or in "the next year or so?" We don't know, because Bioware will not talk to us. They absolutely refuse to give us, their customers, any information about anything.

This almost pathological need for secrecy is eroding the trust between the devs and their customers. Almost everybody in my guild has left this game, and they're all Bioware fans. Hell, they're the ones who convinced me, who has never played a Bioware game before now, that this game was worth pre-ordering because it was Bioware, and they never make a bad game. These are people who looked on those gamers who screamed about the Mass Effect 3 ending with scorn and disgust. And yet, these people who love Bioware that much are fed up with how Bioware is handling this game. Ironically, I was the one telling them to be patient, because once the bugs are ironed out they can concentrate on the "cool stuff" to make the game memorable.

Well, my patience is nearly at an end, too. It's been seven months, and we have no information other than vague "we have plans for something at some point in the future. Stay tuned!" That's when they're not telling us, "We can't talk about that." So, when I say that pulling the "we can't talk about that" card is no longer acceptable, I don't mean it as a threat. I mean it as a heartfelt warning. A lot of players are growing weary of the silence. And they are leaving. Not in a rage, but quietly, and with regret, in a lot of cases. They had high hopes for this game, based on the promises that were made. These promises haven't been kept yet, and they're not telling us when, or even if, they will be.

I'm rapidly getting to the point that I don't believe them anymore. And I'm not the only one.
Proud member of "The Loose Canons" Cartel.
Fan Fics
Completed:
Ongoing:

Belora's Avatar


Belora
07.16.2012 , 07:30 PM | #312
Quote: Originally Posted by Kharnis View Post
... The Secret World. Want to know what they found? A same-sex scene right in the opening cinematic for one of the factions. A scene involving their characters. In a game from Funcom. A game that is published by EA.
1. That chick doesn't care whether your toon is a guy or a girl - it's faction specific.
2. TSW is rated "M" for Mature. It's full of sex and nightmare fuel. TOR is rated "T".

Back on topic...
I've been giving this a lot of thought lately, keeping an eye on this thread, and I've decided I feel brave enough to go out on a limb. What if the reason they haven't said anything about SGR is because right now, they legally can't?
Spoiler

TL;DR
A post full of speculation from someone who hopes to give the SGR folks a little hope.
"Pazaak, anyone?"
A cannon uses explosive-based propellents to launch a projectile. Canon is creative work that's official to a universe.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
07.16.2012 , 07:33 PM | #313
Quote: Originally Posted by Belora View Post
1. That chick doesn't care whether your toon is a guy or a girl - it's faction specific.
2. TSW is rated "M" for Mature. It's full of sex and nightmare fuel. TOR is rated "T".

Back on topic...
I've been giving this a lot of thought lately, keeping an eye on this thread, and I've decided I feel brave enough to go out on a limb. What if the reason they haven't said anything about SGR is because right now, they legally can't?
Spoiler

TL;DR
A post full of speculation from someone who hopes to give the SGR folks a little hope.
You make a strong point, my own point would be, if this game was written by David Gaider(Dragon Age series), we wouldn't need to ask for it.

MusedMoose's Avatar


MusedMoose
07.16.2012 , 08:13 PM | #314
Quote: Originally Posted by Kharnis View Post
Hey, first, no apologies. I posted on a public forum, for everyone to see. If I didn't want someone calling me out on anything I say, then I shouldn't post. So don't worry. I'm in no way offended!
I appreciate that. I try to avoid actual conflict/drama online, so I wasn't sure how that would turn out, but I'm glad you've got a good attitude about this so we can debate, not argue. It can be a little hard to tell in just text.

[snip]
Quote: Originally Posted by Kharnis View Post
Well, my patience is nearly at an end, too. It's been seven months, and we have no information other than vague "we have plans for something at some point in the future. Stay tuned!" That's when they're not telling us, "We can't talk about that." So, when I say that pulling the "we can't talk about that" card is no longer acceptable, I don't mean it as a threat. I mean it as a heartfelt warning. A lot of players are growing weary of the silence. And they are leaving. Not in a rage, but quietly, and with regret, in a lot of cases. They had high hopes for this game, based on the promises that were made. These promises haven't been kept yet, and they're not telling us when, or even if, they will be.

I'm rapidly getting to the point that I don't believe them anymore. And I'm not the only one.
I generally agree with what you've said. I do wish that BioWare would communicate with us more, and it definitely feels like we're hearing less from them about upcoming content than we used to.

The thing about promises not being kept *yet*, though, I have some issue with. This goes back to what I said about BW working on their schedule, not ours. After the ranked PvP delay, I honestly can't blame BW for not wanting to talk about features before they're ready. Just because BioWare hasn't talked about an upcoming feature, or said it's coming soon, that doesn't change it from a "when" to an "if".

But all the same, there should be a middle ground. We got reassurance that SGRs were still being worked on at the guild summit. With this, and with other upcoming features, it would be nice to get an occasional note that yes, this is still in progress. While I said silence on a topic doesn't mean anything but silence on that topic, it is really reassuring to hear something about it from time to time, even if it's just "work still in progress".

As for myself, I'm still willing to take BioWare at their word because I haven't seen reason not to. But there's a line. When I played WoW, I lost faith in Blizzard because of how they handled things. BioWare hasn't reached that level. But if SGRs aren't implemented by the year's end, I'll unsubscribe, because I won't be able to hold them to their word anymore. I admit it's a double standard - ranked PvP doesn't matter to me, SGRs do - but that's where I stand now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Belora View Post
I've been giving this a lot of thought lately, keeping an eye on this thread, and I've decided I feel brave enough to go out on a limb. What if the reason they haven't said anything about SGR is because right now, they legally can't?
Spoiler

TL;DR
A post full of speculation from someone who hopes to give the SGR folks a little hope.
The counterpoint to that is that BioWare's people working on TOR have specifically said they're not going to let protests from various groups change their mind about putting SGRs in the game. A while after the news about SGRs came out, there were protests from a few [air quotes]"family"[/air quotes] groups about this. I don't know how many times it came up in interviews, maybe only once or twice, but people from BioWare said they weren't backing down from adding same-sex content to the game. And as we know, BW is no stranger to this kind of controversy, and they've never backed down. They've said that won't change and I truly hope it doesn't.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
You make a strong point, my own point would be, if this game was written by David Gaider(Dragon Age series), we wouldn't need to ask for it.
And if my aunt had lekku, she'd be a twi'lek. Sadly, the "what if" game usually does little good.

What this got me thinking, though, is that I feel BioWare made a mistake by including OGRs and not SGRs. It would have been really nice of them to not have any companion romance in the game until everyone could be represented equally. Bet we'd see more support for companion romances in general and more people asking for it, too. Ah, well.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
07.16.2012 , 09:23 PM | #315
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
Oh COME ON! That is a bug. Nothing is shoved down anyone's throat, Tharan just assumes something happened that didn't actually happen because of a bugged conversation flag, I think. If you want to get upset about anything with that, get upset with the fact that they haven't fixed it.
I was thinking about the Nadia thing mentioned.

Though, I think Mako has the same thing going on.

...and then the flirts in general....the heterosexual romance content is very visible in this game....it seems a bit much to me sometimes....it feels quite like it's being shoved on me.

AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
07.16.2012 , 09:28 PM | #316
I don't buy that notion. Flirt options might be visible but no one makes you click them. In fact, this is the same argument people usually level against anyone uncomfortable with potential LGBT content. Because it's true. And it is true to both ends of the equation.

So, I'm sorry but if we're not going to accept the notion (and we rightly shouldn't) that LGBT content will suddenly be forced on those who don't want it once it it added to the game, we also cannot pretend that "straight" content is pushed on anyone right now.

We can feel underrepresented in the game, sure. But there's no way we can argue that we're being forced to experience current romance content.
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."

Trolltar's Avatar


Trolltar
07.17.2012 , 05:29 AM | #317
I say no to reworking existing companions. I say yes to adding in new companions that can be acquired at relatively low levels via optional class quests. This way someone could have a same gender relationship with a companion prior to hitting level 50 but it doesn't change the current companions. Just from a RP stance I think it breaks immersion if a year into the game all of a sudden Kira Carson is into girls. I'm all for same gender relationships, but I don't like this notion of changing the existing game.

Yes, that means each player will likely miss out on some romance opportunities but then they will have different opportunties. And that's the way it should be, because different choices should yield different results. Not better or worse results, just different.
Merkavah:MEMBER
PAXDOMINUS
Website | Recruitment Thread

MusedMoose's Avatar


MusedMoose
07.17.2012 , 06:18 AM | #318
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I say no to reworking existing companions. I say yes to adding in new companions that can be acquired at relatively low levels via optional class quests. This way someone could have a same gender relationship with a companion prior to hitting level 50 but it doesn't change the current companions. Just from a RP stance I think it breaks immersion if a year into the game all of a sudden Kira Carson is into girls. I'm all for same gender relationships, but I don't like this notion of changing the existing game.
I find that hard to agree with. First off, this is an MMO; it's constantly in a state of change. Second, if you're RPing a character, then how do you justify having the exact same people traveling with you that other people do? Surely there's not a Kira Carsen cloning facility somewhere on Tython. Also, there's no reason why a companion's feelings for someone of the same gender couldn't develop more slowly than those feelings for someone of the other gender. To continue to use Kira as an example, if she's never felt that way toward another woman, it might take her longer to come to terms with it, especially if she's unsure if the JK feels the same way. BioWare has said they're writing specific romance dialogue for SGRs, so this could easily be part of it, and anyone willing to RP along with it should have no troubles.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
07.17.2012 , 06:21 AM | #319
Just so long as every SGR isn't "I've never felt this way about anyone... you've awoken such feelings inside of me..." etc.

RoyalTTown's Avatar


RoyalTTown
07.17.2012 , 06:26 AM | #320
OK, now that I have finally found "the right thread" to post about this...

At first, I was up in arms about SGRA, but at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter to me. If they implement it, they do. If they don't they don't. It really won't affect my gameplay one way or the other. As stated many times, bigger fish to fry. Also, for the folks against it, you do have other options than [flirt] as responses to questions, and in current gameplay, if you are a female trooper with Elara Dorne as a companion and you flirt with a male NPC, you lose affection with her. Also, if you try to give her courting gifts, you get no affection. However, if you are a male trooper and flirt with her, do you gain affection? Does the courting gifts work? I don't know. Both my Vanguard and Commando are females.

Being a software engineer myself that works for a developing company (not gaming), I can sympathize with the lack of response on certain topics from BW. When your customer base is in the millions or even thousands, you have a tremendous number of questions to answer. Sometimes you simply don't have the staff to address each and every one of the questions. Especially, if in the realm of the big picture, it simply doesn't really matter. Maybe in the big picture, not enough subscribers are demanding the content. Maybe they are receiving opposition? Either way, answering the question of exactly when something is going to happen; PR simply does not know. Being a developer I know this because, I never talk directly with customers unless they make a major financial impact on my company. PR is instructed to not make promises they are unable to keep. We have fired PR reps for doing that. Developers have a list of task that are prioritized, and top priority comes first. Maybe this topic isn't high enough in the priority list. Even if it is high priority to you, doesn't mean it is high priority in the game.

As far as the game rating, I will be extremely saddened for content to be added that would make the game rating gods change the game rating from T to M or MA. My favorite players to run with are my 11 and 14 yr old nephews. If this game were to be M or MA, I would lose my teammates because Momma would say NO. I realize that many parents let their kids play M or MA games, but some parents are still old school.