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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Birthofthecool's Avatar


Birthofthecool
11.16.2012 , 11:02 AM | #3111
Nice to see that most people here finally have stopped repeating the "it will be in there later" statements. 4 months ago, when I let my subscription expire, I felt pretty much alone with my opinion that something was amiss.

At this moment I see two possible reasons for why SGR's have not been included by now, as opposed to what we were told (because lets face it, in that last 1 1/2 months, SGR's aren't going to magically appear in-game.

1. The priority for it has been lowered so much, because of all the problems the game suffers (dwindling subscriptions, FTP model etc..) that it simply isn't on the agenda anymore. Normally this would be the likeliest reason, but it doesn't really explain why neither the writers, the community managers or the pr department give out any information regarding SGR's. Is it really logical not to give people the information they want to save face, when it further disgruntles the group of players that supports SGR's?

2. It has to do with Lucas Arts/ Disney. Who knows how long ago the people over at George Lucas company have known that something like the deal was coming? Disney is not exactly supportive of SGR's or is it?
Yes, there are 2 examples of homosexuality in all of the Extended Star Wars Universe. And that alone has always made me wonder how canonically SGR's are in Star Wars. Think about it. The Juhani romance and her sexual orientation is mostly hinted at, very little of the actual romance remained in the game. It might very well have been an oversight on the side of Lucas Arts, same for the marriage/ partnership between two male Mandalorians. This story also could simply have been overlooked. Maybe whoever was responsible at Lucas Arts simply never realized that both of them were supposed to be male.
So, we have only two examples for SGR in the whole Star Wars universe, otherwise it is as if homosexuality didn't exist. Believe me, I know that, I read almost all EU books and tons of the Dark Horse comics. Two examples that could have been missed by Lucas Art's watchful eye and later retroactively be accepted into canon, like Lowbacca was accepted as the exception for Wookies not being able to be Jedis, after it had already been decided it wasn't possible for them.
I don't think it necessarily means that George Lucas has anything against SGR's or isn't a supporter of equality. if it really is how I think, then it probably has nothing to do with personal opinion, but more with business decisions.

Darcstarr's Avatar


Darcstarr
11.16.2012 , 11:21 AM | #3112
From the FAQ:

Quote:
9) Isn't George Lucas opposed to SGR content?

First of all, Lucas actively supports full marriage equality for same-sex couples. His position and his personal $50,000 contribution to opposing Prop. 8, the California referendum that took away the right of same-sex couples to marry, is a matter of public record. For reference, Mr. Lucas' contribution is the sixth one from the top. With that, there is no reason to think George Lucas would object to same-gender romance in the Galaxy Far, Far Away.

Furthermore, if the original owner of the IP(in this case Lucas) says no to something, it stays that way. A company can not use an IP and say, "Yes, X will be there. No doubt, it's being worked on" if the original owner said it wasn’t going to happen. This simply becomes a bad business move. It's detrimental to lie about something like that. Especially to customers and even more so to investors. Not to mention that would make said company liable for a lawsuit. In short, if Lucas didn't approve, they would have never started talking about SGRs in any of the Star Wars Bioware games the first place. Besides, there is already a precedent for this content in the Star Wars Extended Universe. Which leads me to the next question...


10) Is SGR even canonically in Star Wars?

Yes! There are plenty of examples of SGRs in the Star Wars IP. In the games, it began with original Knights of the Old Republic in 2003, with the companion Juhani, who would only romance female Revans. There was also a same gender romance in the books as well, with Goran Beviin, who's husband was Medrit Vasur. Goran was first featured in the e-book Boba Fett: A Practical Man. The two of them were later fully realized in the book Sacrifice, both of which were by created by author Karen Traviss. They are officially recognized as canon by Lucasarts.
It's also been posted in the thread how LGBT positive Disney is, both in their employee benefits & park events. So no, that argument doesn't hold any water really.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.16.2012 , 11:47 AM | #3113
Daniel Erickson, who at the time was Lead Writer for SWTOR, told us last March that SGRs were coming with other new story content this year. We know that new story content is coming with the expansion bringing us the new planet, Makeb. It has been tentatively alleged by Principal Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amatangelo that SGRs will also be rolled out with Makeb, though as a Guy Who Doesn't Really Work On That, he was not certain. Current Lead Writer Hall Hood cryptically linked to that video interview with Gabe and said "Here's the official word, folks" via Twitter, but the post was later pulled without comment. We know there is one more big content patch planned for 2012, because Ancient Hypergates, the new warzone, is slated for inclusion in it. That is almost certainly Makeb.

So the issue isn't honestly why the content isn't in, or when it may be coming. That's stuff we are able to infer from what we've been told.

The issue is that none of the questions we have asked regarding how SGRs will be implemented have ever been acknowleged much less answered. Okay - maybe one was, when Erickson said they were writing unique stories for same-gender romances with companions, which nixed the "maybe they can just swap pronouns in the existing scripts" discussion that we had off and on in February.

But none of this was discussed by BioWare here, on these forums. It never has been, beyond repasting a stale announcement from September, 2011, at the front of this thread when it gets remade. And that statement was initially made on a pre-launch beta forum which is no longer retrievable. Any other quotes, transcripts, links and so on you may see in this thread were collected by us to help clarify where matters stand.

Why? Because BioWare won't.

And why won't they? We don't know. That's another thing they aren't talking about.

That's the problem.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.16.2012 , 01:50 PM | #3114
Back to our oh-so-enthralling game of trying to piece together what is happening with same-gender content by examining what does get said, Dulfy has posted an interview conducted with Lead Designer Damion Schubert, in which the following is said regarding the Makeb content patch, which we infer from other scraps to be our best hope for seeing SGRs delivered this year:

Quote: Originally Posted by Damion Schubert
The Free to Play option and Cartel Market were built by an entirely different team, in order to ensure the Makeb team remained completely focused on their target date. We definitely have a date in mind, and there should be news about that coming soon!
So it looks like the Makeb patch release date is not pushed back because of the delay of a couple weeks implementing 1.5, and that we really ought to still be able to expect SGRs this year. Then again, Luke never did get those units on the south ridge repaired, much less by midday, hell to pay or not. So I am not holding my breath.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.16.2012 , 01:53 PM | #3115
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
So it looks like the Makeb patch release date is not pushed back because of the delay of a couple weeks implementing 1.5, and that we really ought to still be able to expect SGRs this year. Then again, Luke never did get those units on the south ridge repaired, much less by midday, hell to pay or not. So I am not holding my breath.
I love you for that reference.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.16.2012 , 01:58 PM | #3116
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
So it looks like the Makeb patch release date is not pushed back because of the delay of a couple weeks implementing 1.5, and that we really ought to still be able to expect SGRs this year. Then again, Luke never did get those units on the south ridge repaired, much less by midday, hell to pay or not. So I am not holding my breath.
I assumed you were a vampire of some kind, therefore making breathing irrelevant and your impending wrath on this subject just that little bit more terrifying.

DarthEpitaph's Avatar


DarthEpitaph
11.16.2012 , 02:00 PM | #3117
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
I love you for that reference.
Seconded.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.16.2012 , 03:56 PM | #3118
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
I love you for that reference.
Thanks.

I really am vacillating on this right now. I mean, I am optimistic about SGRs being implemented next month. On the other hand, I am disappointed that nothing could be said to help players who wanted to plan their game-play so as to be ready to enjoy this content when it does make it into game.

In that latter respect, however much we were encouraged to continue to raise our concerns here, this thread has been a colossal waste of time. The one point clarified was that whichever companions are involved, same-gender romance is being written as a wholly different conversational tree. Good news, as far as it went. Do we count getting the ballpark release window of "this year" as a point from this thread clarified, or was that more from the Weekly Q&A in February & March?

In whatever case, none of that was ever addressed by BioWare on these forums anywhere at all, much less in this thread. So while we were told to continue to discuss this, what good ever came of it?

The only use I can now see for this thread, now that we are maybe about a month out from implementation of SGRs, has been to collect what fragmentary information there is in order to bring other community members up to date on what we know has been said about this, and what we can infer. That is, we wound up doing what BioWare wouldn't or couldn't and, yeah, I am kind of bitter about that.

My affection for this game has taken a huge blow from how this was handled, and EA Corporate has done a very thorough job of concealing those responsible for the decisions made in this regard from having to hear from the hoi-polloi. I can only hope our disaffection is in fact being conveyed to those responsible, and that they can learn how to better address such issues in the future, if they have one.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.16.2012 , 04:04 PM | #3119
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
I can only hope our disaffection is in fact being conveyed to those responsible, and that they can learn how to better address such issues in the future, if they have one.
That would imply that the Community Team in fact relay information of any kind relating to this topic, back up the chain and into Bioware/EA, which is something I personally highly doubt.

I know I should be optimistic and give them the benefit of the doubt, but right now I feel like I'm watching a car sinking in a river and hoping that the water's shallower than it looks.

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.16.2012 , 05:48 PM | #3120
With the F2P announcement I decided to check out what the status of this was after being gone for just short of what 8 or 9 months now? And surprise surprise we are exactly where we were when I left.

We still have no idea if or when this content will ever see the light of day. For a game that sold itself as "the" story mmo, going this long without what I would consider to be a large chunk of your baseline class story is pretty shameful. The way they've handled the whole thing and treated the community, wanting to shove the entire issue back in the closet instead of actually acknowledging the gaping hole in the game content, is even worse.

They did exceed one of my expectations though. I thought they would make it at least 18 months before they had to go F2P. Guess even I'm off the mark some of the time.