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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
11.06.2012 , 10:55 AM | #2981
Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
The point I was making is that all romances end with your class story. Unlike PvP and Ops, there's no real replay value in them (even if you specifically would reroll over and over to replay romances I can guarantee you're in the minority).
That's subjective. Some people feel that PvP and Ops have no replay value b/c fighting the same big monster boss dude every week with the same mechanics is boring as heck.

Also, it's not necessarily about re-rolling to 'replay romance' but to replay the class story in general in which romance is a part of that. This part is lacking right now for some.

The 'minority' argument won't fly as there are lots of minorities of people who want stuff in the game that most others don't care about. Justify to me why BW shouldn't try to do things for them, whether they want SGRA's, hood toggles, better open-world PvP, etc. All these little 'minority' groups add up to a lot of players.

Players that express feedback/criticism on the forums are a minority to begin with, as most people don't bother.

Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
It just seems weird to me for people to get hung up on such a small part of this game. I've played 3 classes to 50 and the hetero romances have been almost entirely forgettable, especially for my main (male SI).
Funny enough, you still felt the need to complete them.
Node guarder

SenatorPalpaTANG's Avatar


SenatorPalpaTANG
11.06.2012 , 11:53 AM | #2982
Quote: Originally Posted by Ellianshia View Post
Very late comer to the thread, but eh... I haven't really touched TOR in a while to begin with (while keeping my subscription up and supporting the devs in the hopes that I'd actually get to see the content we were promised).... still holding out hope on SGR. Anyways, to answer your comment. Okay, let's agree that we (the people that want to replay the game for the romance options) are the minority. Are you telling me that BW/EA should discriminate against the minority? On that note, people that are interested in SGR are also a minority, no? Should they be discriminated against as well?
Discriminated against? Lets not be sensationalistic here. I'm talking about prioritizing.

I'm not against SGRs on principle, I just disagree with the level of their importance to the overall success of the game (which I assume is something we all want). If it comes with the level cap increase and new campaign content, it's all good. An entire patch cycle dedicated to this alone would be a complete waste however.

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Heck, one could even go as far as to argue that PvE/PvP (Whichever is more popular in TOR, makes no difference to me) players are a minority as well. Should we go and have the Devs remove the content that said minority is interested in? Put new content for said minority on the back-burner altogether?
Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...

That said, I would wager the end game PvPers and PvErs make up a much, much larger percentage of the player base than the people specifically clamoring for SGRs.

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Original KOTOR games? Really? One companion in KOTOR2, one minor mention in KOTOR1 that never goes beyond mild flirting? It's lovely that you have an opinion on the matter, but really, do a little bit of research before pointing out places where the people in this thread can get their 'fix' of pixelated SGR with F2B. It's not really about the novelty of it anymore. It's not about having more choices to get the SGR content we're looking for.
These games aren't dating sims... I really don't know what you guys are expecting here.

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It's gotten to the point of being about a promise that was made and never realized. Not to mention getting shoved in a corner every time someone decides to open a new thread.
Well there's one thing we can agree on. BW has made a lot of promises about this game and failed to deliver. But this one doesn't stand out as anything special.

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What's weird to you is normal to others. The fact that you don't understand why we're here doesn't mean that we don't have the right to be here. For you - sure, they were forgettable. For me... well, I still have fond memories of Vector (The only male companion I'd romance in TOR) even though I haven't played TOR since... March, I think. Some of us enjoy that more than running around a 100x200 meter field with traps and throwing a glowing ball at people in an attempt to run it past an imaginary line and 'score'. Some of us enjoy the story more than going into a raid and performing all sorts of aerial acrobatics in an attempt to not get one-shot by the fifteen different ways to die during boss fights.
Fair enough, but then why play an MMO at all? Bioware's single player games are all about story without any of that icky PvP or PvE to get in the way.

SWToR's leveling and story were great (for an MMO) but their shallow endgame is the reason they bled off 1mil+ subs. That needs to be improved before anything else. Some extra space sex isn't going to turn things around.

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I pay the same money that you do for this game, so who are you to tell me the way I should play it... or what features I should try and request of the game that I paid for? You don't see me trying to tell Devs to stop putting in PvP or PvE content, do you? Do extend us the same courtesy.
I haven't told anyone how to play the game, and I haven't said "omg never put in SGRs!!!" I am saying there are much more important things the developers should be working on getting live first, however.

Have some perspective.
VIGILANCE Rancor Rider

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.06.2012 , 12:36 PM | #2983
Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...
It's 1.6 and should be in December.*

We're also hoping that 1.6 will be Makeb and come with SGRA's - meaning that same-sex content won't be limited to a patch all to itself, but rather be bundled with story content as Mr. Erickson said it would be back during the Guild Summit.


*Ms. Berryman, here. A PvP warzone would be a significant content patch, earning its own number, the only patch for November is 1.5 and the last month of the year is December.

Ellianshia's Avatar


Ellianshia
11.06.2012 , 01:08 PM | #2984
Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
Discriminated against? Lets not be sensationalistic here. I'm talking about prioritizing.

I'm not against SGRs on principle, I just disagree with the level of their importance to the overall success of the game (which I assume is something we all want). If it comes with the level cap increase and new campaign content, it's all good. An entire patch cycle dedicated to this alone would be a complete waste however.
And when will there be enough PvP/PvE content so that prioritizing will work to put in SGRs? I don't know about you, but it takes me exactly one go at a raid and it's boring to me. On that note, I'm a bit of an altoholic. I enjoy leveling characters a lot more than farming the same raid over and over and over again. I'm sure I'm not alone. What I'm trying to say here is... if I was to push for PvE content, it'd come slower and less often than I get bored with it, and then things that are "low-priority" for you like SGRs end up being implemented... never. Fact is, you're asking for more content for the PvP and the PvE crowd. All nice and dandy, I don't object to that... I won't bother with it a whole lot, but I won't oppose it either. What we're doing is asking for more content as well, nothing else. While it may not be game-breaking or game-making, I doubt it will hurt to have it either. And really, if content is low-priority, then what is? In my opinion, it's bug fixes that need addressing first and foremost. Anything beyond that really falls under the same category.

But anyway... Nobody's asking that everything else be tossed away or stopped. All we're asking for is some storyline for people that prefer SGR. I'm not playing TOR. I don't want to play it to begin with, not until I have something to tickle my fancy. Why? Because if I get everything to lvl 50 and see all the storylines, then SGR gets implemented... well, I'll be replaying the same thing and skipping everything except the new content? It might be 5%, it might be less, but it's still part of the story... and experiencing it out of context and out of order kind of breaks the entertainment value... at least for me. SGR coming with a game expansion rather than a game patch kind of makes it worse. We have to pay for the right to be of a different sexuality now?

Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...

That said, I would wager the end game PvPers and PvErs make up a much, much larger percentage of the player base than the people specifically clamoring for SGRs.
Here we go again with majority versus minority. You're saying that I shouldn't go yelling discrimination when you keep going with "We have more of X than Y, so X needs to get more content than Y." That, in and of itself, is discrimination. I know you can't make all players happy. It's simply impossible to get a group of say... one million people together and make sure that everyone is happy while being put in the same situation, even if the situation is to give them each a million dollars a piece. There will always be someone that will find something to complain about. What they do at that point is try their best to make the highest percentage of people playing the game happy. And that, sometimes, includes making changes that affect minorities.

Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
These games aren't dating sims... I really don't know what you guys are expecting here.

Well there's one thing we can agree on. BW has made a lot of promises about this game and failed to deliver. But this one doesn't stand out as anything special.
We're expecting to be given the same thing that any hetero-sexual person gets out of their storyline. Nothing more, nothing less.

Priorities again... really? The promise was.... "You can expect SGR sometime this year." Well, guess what, this year is almost over... and we're not getting even a hint of it being near completion. I might be wrong here, it could come next patch, but honestly... not even a peep when PvE content gets previews practically two patches ahead?

Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
Fair enough, but then why play an MMO at all? Bioware's single player games are all about story without any of that icky PvP or PvE to get in the way.

SWToR's leveling and story were great (for an MMO) but their shallow endgame is the reason they bled off 1mil+ subs. That needs to be improved before anything else. Some extra space sex isn't going to turn things around.

I haven't told anyone how to play the game, and I haven't said "omg never put in SGRs!!!" I am saying there are much more important things the developers should be working on getting live first, however.

Have some perspective.
I play an MMO because I enjoy interacting with others while playing. Sometimes those interactions suck like when someone decides to go ahead and be a jerk by trying to interfere with your questing or whatever, and sometimes it's good interactions when you get help for a quest from an unlikely source and chat a bit with others.

Endgame being shallow will change... when? How much endgame is "enough"? 10 raids? 50? 500? And yes, you're pretty much saying... "Put SGRs in after you've sated all of us with PvE." But... let's say a year from now, there comes an expansion, raising the level cap, then you'd need new endgame content, more raids, etc, etc... so when does the cycle stop? Does it ever? If SGRs are being postponed until "endgame is better", it'll likely end up being implemented when there's no-one left to appreciate it.

To recap:
You keep throwing the same argument out over and over and over again while trying to dress it with different words. From what I understood of your post, it comes down to "Raids and WZs important, SGR - not because there's more PvP-ers and PvE-ers than people with different sexuality. Give the majority more content." I'd honestly recommend looking up the meaning of discrimination before posting.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.06.2012 , 01:16 PM | #2985
Although it is being written after the rest, don't think of the pending romantic content as just a few on ship scenes and a cutscene. See it for what it is a part of the entire story for that companion, unlocked bit by bit through play, told over the course of levelling. The romance is one possible outcome but, if that is the direction in which one progresses the story, it is a necessary element of that story.

Plenty of people do find the current companion romances enjoyable, and there have been threads on these boards that say so. In which, while plenty of other people would disagree about specific companion stories or particular companions, no one was coming in and saying "how can you enjoy this with everything else that is wrong?"

So, whether it is of any concern to you or not (and, if not, why do you keep coming in here to discuss it?) this really is the single most broken part of the game for me right now. It bothers me more than having my 30-yard stuns remade into 10-yard abilities, which is the only game mechanic I can think of lately that I dislike. Overall, the game runs just fine for me, I don't have the objections others seem to have.

Now, you will not see me going into their threads and saying "how can you care about this when I don't have what I want." I am not saying those things shouldn't be addressed. And PvP & PvE have been getting developmental priority already. Bugs are already being fixed long before SGRs are being addressed. Things take time, and some people want different things, and time will be spent on those things you don't want, too.

I don't know where you grew up, but where I did we learned taking turns and sharing in kindergarten.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.06.2012 , 01:24 PM | #2986
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
When do we expect the answers to be? I want to know when I should buy comfort food.
Should be Thursday, ish. I just got bothered and checked. Mr/Ms. Sky's Blog (the last Developer Blog) was on the 9th of October (although it reads 10th September ) and the Q&A responses came out on the 16th, seven days later.

So... yay. Think I have an Op that day, not sure.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.06.2012 , 01:30 PM | #2987
Well, you know they are perfectly well capable of dodging a question they do not want to address, even if it is holding steadily above 25% of those asked. I look forward to Hall's Q&A replies, too. But I don't think we will see anything at all even acknowleging that the status of SGRs is a concern. We'll see.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.06.2012 , 01:35 PM | #2988
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
Well, you know they are perfectly well capable of dodging a question they do not want to address, even if it is holding steadily above 25% of those asked. I look forward to Hall's Q&A replies, too. But I don't think we will see anything at all even acknowleging that the status of SGRs is a concern. We'll see.
If they do that, I'll be asking Ms. Berrryman and Mr. Gonzalez why they felt they need to ignore the most asked question in the thread (it's one question that makes up over a quarter of all the questions - the rest are on different subjects). Perhaps I'll even try tweeting Mr. Hood to see if he even got the full list?

It's an unfortunate thing that it's likely something that they'd do - they haven't exactly shown much care for the opinions of the community.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
11.06.2012 , 01:36 PM | #2989
Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
Discriminated against? Lets not be sensationalistic here. I'm talking about prioritizing.

I'm not against SGRs on principle, I just disagree with the level of their importance to the overall success of the game (which I assume is something we all want). If it comes with the level cap increase and new campaign content, it's all good. An entire patch cycle dedicated to this alone would be a complete waste however.

Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...

That said, I would wager the end game PvPers and PvErs make up a much, much larger percentage of the player base than the people specifically clamoring for SGRs.

These games aren't dating sims... I really don't know what you guys are expecting here.

Well there's one thing we can agree on. BW has made a lot of promises about this game and failed to deliver. But this one doesn't stand out as anything special.

Fair enough, but then why play an MMO at all? Bioware's single player games are all about story without any of that icky PvP or PvE to get in the way.

SWToR's leveling and story were great (for an MMO) but their shallow endgame is the reason they bled off 1mil+ subs. That needs to be improved before anything else. Some extra space sex isn't going to turn things around.

I haven't told anyone how to play the game, and I haven't said "omg never put in SGRs!!!" I am saying there are much more important things the developers should be working on getting live first, however.

Have some perspective.
If you know about BioWare, which it seems you do, then you know that since Jade Empire, it's been expected of BioWare to put SGRs in their games in one form or another. You seem to be in the "against" category for SGRs, yet you also seem to have bought Dragon Age and Mass Effect in spite of SGRs being in there. Those games included the SGRs from launch. When TOR came out, quite a few people outside the LGBT community were also surprised that SGRs weren't in there yet. I was one of them. I'm just a mildly perverted straight guy that likes watching two ladies kiss each other, but I also support the rights of everyone.

You say that you want the developers to work on other stuff first.... like what? Makeb is coming out soon. Other endgame content is already out, with more on the way. All the gamebreaking bugs are fixed. Why not put in SGRs as soon as possible?
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.06.2012 , 01:49 PM | #2990
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
If you know about BioWare, which it seems you do, then you know that since Jade Empire, it's been expected of BioWare to put SGRs in their games in one form or another. You seem to be in the "against" category for SGRs...
Actually he's stated he's not in the "anti" crowd, but he does seem to be confusing our want for information on this subject and the expectation that Bioware keeps its promises regarding the content being out this year, with wanting to hog all the development resources.

I don't know how many times I've said this, but we aren't asking for Bioware to stop producing Warzones, Operations, Flashpoints, Space Missions, Hood Toggles, Chairs, New Speeders, Cash Shop Items or whatever people are pining for currently. We're asking for the content they should have had at launch. We're asking for the same thing as has been given to opposite-sex romances. We're asking for the full companion stories.

We're asking for information on the subject - something that has not come for months. PvE and PvP players get updates from the developers on a far more regular schedule and far more often - even the Super Secret Space People have had nods now and then. We ask for confirmation of an "If, not sure, maybe" from the PvP Lead Developer and are demonised for it.

This is not about taking anything from anyone - it's about adding. Adding content, adding choice.

Same-sex romance is the only subject that I've ever seen people saying that choice is a bad thing, that choice shouldn't be in the game, that our choices should be dictated to us on the basis that someone we've never met thinks it's icky. Or unimportant. Or irrelevant.

If these individuals in the "anti" crowd thought that having same-sex romances in game was such a waste of time or was such a horrible and terrible thing, then they'd be beseeching Bioware, not yelling at us.