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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.20.2012 , 05:20 PM | #1551
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
As a side note, this topic has now passed half a million views over its six incarnations. Not necessarily germane, but I've been keeping track. I blame early exposure to a vampire puppet on a children's public television program.
My apologies

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
09.20.2012 , 05:20 PM | #1552
I will say on a positive note, while there hasn't been any significant news on this particular topic lately, it does seem like the devs are coming out a lot more lately and communicating, doing interviews, posting on the forums, doing the live Q&A thing. Their focus seems to be mostly on 1.4 and Free to Play at the moment, so maybe once that all comes to pass, we'll start hearing more about Makeb.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
09.20.2012 , 06:02 PM | #1553
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
I'm on The Shadowlands now, PvE NA server. I haven't been playing quite as much on my 50 jugg(renamed to Natashina after the merge,) but look for the Legacy name Starsyn and really weird hours. At this point you'll probably find me on either K'ain(Commando) or Tynesa(Sniper.)

I have thought about rolling up a toon on your server for fun.

I'm an old-school D&D nerd, so I love a good rp session as well. I started when I was 8 and I'm turning 33 this weekend, so you can tell how much passion I have for it. That's part of the reason why I'm looking forward to SGRs so much. It can really open some cool opportunities for roleplay.
Happy Birthday!!! *\o/*
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.20.2012 , 06:14 PM | #1554
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
I will say on a positive note, while there hasn't been any significant news on this particular topic lately, it does seem like the devs are coming out a lot more lately and communicating, doing interviews, posting on the forums, doing the live Q&A thing. Their focus seems to be mostly on 1.4 and Free to Play at the moment, so maybe once that all comes to pass, we'll start hearing more about Makeb.
Well, we were cautioned in March that we would not receive much if any news on this front until it was closer to release, and that is a point that Stephen Reid made as well, that it was highly unusual to talk about content that far ahead. So yes, if it does come with Makeb, I imagine we'll get news when they start to talk about 1.5.

But there are questions that have been pending here since January, that people have asked in order to know how best to play in order to assure they don't accidentally lock themselves out of this content. I am virtually certain that people have let their subscriptions lapse and have shelved SWTOR until this content comes because there is so little information available. And if, as Gabe's little aside indicates, this is coming by the end of the year, then they have answers to these questions that they could provide if the choose to.

How this content was delayed from inclusion at launch can best be described by a word rhyming with duckup. It might help if, in spite of it being some ways down the track, they could begin to discuss it anyway.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
09.20.2012 , 10:49 PM | #1555
Personally, one of my biggest motivations for trying to get SGRs out is because of the current state of the gaming community as a whole. Whether the genre is FPS, MMO or even RTS, hate speech is accepted and even encouraged by the gaming community to an extent. I'm not saying that everyone that uses those terms is hateful or homophobic, but it sure doesn't help.

One company did it at one of their major events, albeit on accident(the only word I will say if you are curious is Corpsegrinder, who is not homophobic.) They just didn't think it through since the speech is so accepted. The level of apathy from some companies is palable and has done a lot of harm to many gamers. The community has gotten so toxic that some gamers are offended by content that really doesn't effect them and will attack anyone that supports it. While using the aforementioned hate speech, no less.

Most major gaming companies seldom address any LGBT content, if at all. EA/BW has the chance to show the world that not all gamers are alike and that this content should be out there in a MMO format. There is some potential to do some real good for the gaming community, and while I don't expect miracles, content like this can help change some of the really homophobic attitudes down the line.

That being said, I'm really disgusted at how swept under the rug this had seemed to become(especially prior to Gabe's comment.) By the devs, marketing reps, and/or PR staying silent on this issue for over 6 months, it helps allow this disgusting behavior to go on. If EA doesn't step up soon and share at least a few details with the playerbase(and by proxy, the world as well), it seems to reinforce the narrow minded behavior that is rampant in the gaming community. Being too cautious and ill prepared for PR fallout in this case worked for me....in January. It's now the 2nd to last day of summer, and the excuse is running thin. The only way to get SGRA content accepted by the gaming community is to stop treating it like taboo, like it's something a company has to be ashamed of.

It's hard for me to see something that could be so beneficial be all but ignored by a company like BioWare. Yet, here I am. As a gamer, as ToR player and as a person, I'm not going to just sit back and take it the patronizing silence. I'll continue to help push for this, and I'm going to try to stay positive while I do it. Only by keeping my voice out there will I be able to effect any change.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.21.2012 , 12:00 AM | #1556
I can see your point, but by and large I think it is only a matter of time before the gamer crowd - or that portion of it that is loudly and offensively insecure in its sexual identity - comes around. I do think positive portrayals in games matter as much as in any popular media, but this honestly isn't a social crusade for me here so much as a matter of being able to enjoy the game.

That's what it comes down to, for me. A game is for fun. I don't want to end up disgruntled by the omission of any same-gender options while being beaten over the head with opposite-gender stuff. When a studio that ought to know better that has done better just fails to take it into account, that's disappointing. I can excuse the poorly thought out decision to omit it at launch. But really, they need to admit the mistake and express some regret for the impression conveyed by the game they launched, the game I am paying to play.

Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
It's hard for me to see something that could be so beneficial be all but ignored by a company like BioWare. Yet, here I am. As a gamer, as ToR player and as a person, I'm not going to just sit back and take it the patronizing silence. I'll continue to help push for this, and I'm going to try to stay positive while I do it. Only by keeping my voice out there will I be able to effect any change.
I have a hard time staying positive, but darn tootin' I am not going to shut up about this. I will even continue to ask awkward questions, to provoke discussion and do what I can within the rules of conduct to keep things riled up. I feel a little guilty about pressure on the Community Team. But I also feel without that, the chances of our concerns being conveyed in the right direction are minimal, and our chances of a substantive reply nonexistant.

They can say they are aware all they like. But until we see some actual evidence to back that up, no, I see no reason to let this go.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
09.21.2012 , 12:14 AM | #1557
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
I can see your point, but by and large I think it is only a matter of time before the gamer crowd - or that portion of it that is loudly and offensively insecure in its sexual identity - comes around. I do think positive portrayals in games matter as much as in any popular media, but this honestly isn't a social crusade for me here so much as a matter of being able to enjoy the game.

That's what it comes down to, for me. A game is for fun. I don't want to end up disgruntled by the omission of any same-gender options while being beaten over the head with opposite-gender stuff. When a studio that ought to know better that has done better just fails to take it into account, that's disappointing. I can excuse the poorly thought out decision to omit it at launch. But really, they need to admit the mistake and express some regret for the impression conveyed by the game they launched, the game I am paying to play.

While I agree that it's only a matter of time, content like what they are offering in ToR would help make that change. Like I said, that's one of the reasons why I support this content so much.

If I didn't enjoy this game, and it's story/rp options, I don't think I'd care as much. If I felt it was an inferior product to begin with, then I'd see it all as a waste of my time. As it stands, not only do I think this is a well done game, but its a company that has shown prescient for this content before. They have done better and they should do better for this game. Also, as a member of the LGBT community, I'd like to the chance to play a little more as myself. I know I'm far from alone on that sentiment.

Plus some of the OGR content is pretty over-the-top. For example, my husband and I were leveling our Pub toons, his being Commando and my toon being a Guardian. We finally got to meet Doc, and my husband just rolled his eyes at Doc's attempts to hit on Kira. He even commented Doc seemed sleazy, then shot me a pretty incredulous look when I told him that Doc was the female JK interest. That companion was the biggest reason why my JK is male. Doc seemed like an exaggerated stereotype of a flirty straight guy and I wasn't thrilled with the result.


Edit: In order to romance the companion I liked, I had to roll male. That still rather chaps my hide as a player.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.21.2012 , 03:10 AM | #1558
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
I feel a little guilty about pressure on the Community Team. But I also feel without that, the chances of our concerns being conveyed in the right direction are minimal, and our chances of a substantive reply nonexistant.

They can say they are aware all they like. But until we see some actual evidence to back that up, no, I see no reason to let this go.
Unfortunately the Community Team are our only way of being able to contact anyone in Bioware, so the number of requests for information we and others make through a single channel is going to feel like pressure. The new LiveStream Q&A is coming out soon-ish, but it seems that everyone expects it to be a re-hash of the old one, so we are still going to have to lean on the Community Team to get some, if any, information.

They say they're reading this thread, but I don't think they're actually paying attention to what we're saying. There's a large gap between reading and understanding and I feel that Bioware have yet to demonstrate that they are aware of that difference.

rahadnak's Avatar


rahadnak
09.21.2012 , 04:29 AM | #1559
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
Personally, one of my biggest motivations for trying to get SGRs out is because of the current state of the gaming community as a whole. Whether the genre is FPS, MMO or even RTS, hate speech is accepted and even encouraged by the gaming community to an extent. I'm not saying that everyone that uses those terms is hateful or homophobic, but it sure doesn't help.

One company did it at one of their major events, albeit on accident(the only word I will say if you are curious is Corpsegrinder, who is not homophobic.) They just didn't think it through since the speech is so accepted. The level of apathy from some companies is palable and has done a lot of harm to many gamers. The community has gotten so toxic that some gamers are offended by content that really doesn't effect them and will attack anyone that supports it. While using the aforementioned hate speech, no less.

Most major gaming companies seldom address any LGBT content, if at all. EA/BW has the chance to show the world that not all gamers are alike and that this content should be out there in a MMO format. There is some potential to do some real good for the gaming community, and while I don't expect miracles, content like this can help change some of the really homophobic attitudes down the line.

That being said, I'm really disgusted at how swept under the rug this had seemed to become(especially prior to Gabe's comment.) By the devs, marketing reps, and/or PR staying silent on this issue for over 6 months, it helps allow this disgusting behavior to go on. If EA doesn't step up soon and share at least a few details with the playerbase(and by proxy, the world as well), it seems to reinforce the narrow minded behavior that is rampant in the gaming community. Being too cautious and ill prepared for PR fallout in this case worked for me....in January. It's now the 2nd to last day of summer, and the excuse is running thin. The only way to get SGRA content accepted by the gaming community is to stop treating it like taboo, like it's something a company has to be ashamed of.

It's hard for me to see something that could be so beneficial be all but ignored by a company like BioWare. Yet, here I am. As a gamer, as ToR player and as a person, I'm not going to just sit back and take it the patronizing silence. I'll continue to help push for this, and I'm going to try to stay positive while I do it. Only by keeping my voice out there will I be able to effect any change.
I couldn't agree more

Eleuril's Avatar


Eleuril
09.21.2012 , 04:48 AM | #1560
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
Personally, one of my biggest motivations for trying to get SGRs out is because of the current state of the gaming community as a whole. Whether the genre is FPS, MMO or even RTS, hate speech is accepted and even encouraged by the gaming community to an extent. I'm not saying that everyone that uses those terms is hateful or homophobic, but it sure doesn't help.

One company did it at one of their major events, albeit on accident(the only word I will say if you are curious is Corpsegrinder, who is not homophobic.) They just didn't think it through since the speech is so accepted. The level of apathy from some companies is palable and has done a lot of harm to many gamers. The community has gotten so toxic that some gamers are offended by content that really doesn't effect them and will attack anyone that supports it. While using the aforementioned hate speech, no less.

Most major gaming companies seldom address any LGBT content, if at all. EA/BW has the chance to show the world that not all gamers are alike and that this content should be out there in a MMO format. There is some potential to do some real good for the gaming community, and while I don't expect miracles, content like this can help change some of the really homophobic attitudes down the line.
The truly depressing thing about that incident was that those who complained about it were labelled as oversensitive and whiny. The company did apologise, but they seemed utterly bewildered by the outcry, as though they genuinely couldn't understand what was wrong. That is how bad it has become.

That, to me, illustrates the importance for this sort of content in SWTOR. I don't see anything of the kind ever being introduced in a certain other MMO, run by a company that seems to have given up punishing players for obnoxious behaviour. It seems that in recent years games companies have been reluctant to challenge the sort of gamer who thinks they have an inalienable right to spew bigoted nonsense, out of some misguided notion that it's just what gamers do and it might drive away customers. That's rubbish. It just drives away the well-behaved players and the grown-ups. I'm not a thin-skinned kind of guy, but the attitude of a lot of MMO players these days stinks and I'm sick of it.