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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Hessen's Avatar


Hessen
09.04.2012 , 03:13 PM | #1111
Because people are posting saying that they want it soon. Just because you might have adjusted your expectations to wait for a long time for it to arrive, doesn't mean other people are. When people are saying they are unsubbing because of it, that implies wanting it implemented soon.
Twisted
EU - Tomb of Freedon Nadd
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theStirge's Avatar


theStirge
09.04.2012 , 03:32 PM | #1112
I'm not going to unsub because of it, but the only thing in the game I want more than SGRAs is codex bugfixes. The sooner the better, but I'd rather wait a while and have them done properly than have them crap out some godawful Samantha Traynor "Why don't you take a shower, tee-hee, why don't I join you, tee-hee, now we are in love after never having flirted even a little bit before this and only even talking three or four times ever" garbage. U-Haul standard be damned, that's not a romance. (And it was really too bad, too, because Sam was really cute, and she had some nice character hooks, and it could have been fun to get to know her a little better the way you can with Steve Cortez.)
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Hessen's Avatar


Hessen
09.04.2012 , 03:37 PM | #1113
Quote: Originally Posted by theStirge View Post
I'm not going to unsub because of it, but the only thing in the game I want more than SGRAs is codex bugfixes. The sooner the better, but I'd rather wait a while and have them done properly than have them crap out some godawful Samantha Traynor "Why don't you take a shower, tee-hee, why don't I join you, tee-hee, now we are in love after never having flirted even a little bit before this and only even talking three or four times ever" garbage. U-Haul standard be damned, that's not a romance. (And it was really too bad, too, because Sam was really cute, and she had some nice character hooks, and it could have been fun to get to know her a little better the way you can with Steve Cortez.)
To be honest, most of the TOR current relationships are that bad.

"Hey I like you"
"Hey I like you too"
*kiss*
*screen fades to black*

"Lets get married"
Twisted
EU - Tomb of Freedon Nadd
16m Raiding Guild - Recruiting

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.04.2012 , 04:17 PM | #1114
Quote: Originally Posted by Hessen View Post
Because people are posting saying that they want it soon. Just because you might have adjusted your expectations to wait for a long time for it to arrive, doesn't mean other people are. When people are saying they are unsubbing because of it, that implies wanting it implemented soon.
No, they are saying that they won't support a game that isn't inclusive, and I am not far from agreeing with them. That's not saying SGR needs to be in before another Warzone or Operations, it's saying a game that lacks this content isn't worth playing.

I might not go quite so far, but I will say that a game which stresses romantic elements as much as it does -- and I am now seeing how many opportunities my male Sorcerer gets to [Flirt], but only with the ladies, of course -- and does not include same-gender options is intensely frustrating. It tells me, as often as I see it, "We'll happily take your money, Uluain... but we'll just pretend people like you don't really exist."

That's pretty crappy. Whether or not the message is intentional, it is the impression given by the game as it stands. I can perfectly understand why some player are not willing to play until this is remedied. I like the game, a lot. I do. I want to be supportive, but it's becoming an equally difficult decision between that enjoyment and my personal integrity and self-respect.

Now, implementing this content will take time, and that is understood. But BioWare has made a commitment to delivering this content. Not "that is the sort of thing we'd like to try to get to, some day," which is what they have said of minigames like pazzak and swoop racing. They have said "this will happen" and they have even said "this will happen this year."

That is an attempt to acknowlege that they don't wish the game to send a message of exclusion. And right now, that promise is the only thing which allows me to justify to myself the money I give to BioWare in order to play. The issue may be irrelevant to many players. To me, it will make or break this game.

Some have left until it is included. Some have left because BioWare refused to communicate in regards to this issue. My own willingness to be patient is severly undermined by the way this subject is handled, being confined to a single thread on an obscure sub-forum. A thread which has run for over eight months without ever receiving any kind of Community Team reply, even the courtesy reply of "We know this is important, and we'll try to find out what we can, but we have no information."

We have had those replies... privately. But never here where we are asked to confine our discussion in a virtual closet. If they really wish me to believe that I, and other LGBT players, and other players who support same-gender content, are valued parts of the player community, they really, really need to do more to demonstrate that.

TL;DR -- people aren't leaving because this content isn't added first. People are leaving because the game as it stands is grossly heterosexist, and discussion of this content is treated in a dismissive, discriminatory manner.

Hessen's Avatar


Hessen
09.04.2012 , 04:33 PM | #1115
Well, good luck with that then.
Twisted
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Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
09.04.2012 , 06:36 PM | #1116
Quote: Originally Posted by Hessen View Post
Well, good luck with that then.

Currently looking for a friendly, fun and mature gaming community to be a part of.
Likewise.

I think the intent of this thread is often misunderstood and misrepresented by other people projecting their preconceived notion of what we are asking for, and why. In a way, that is welcome as it allows for clarification of what we really are after. On the other hand, having to rebut the same points again and again gets old.

The number one reason for this thread is to keep this content and player interest in its inclusion at the attention of the Development Team.

People leaving the game and consequently this thread hinders that. I was trying to explain why they have left. Not because they want this right now, but because they want to play a game that includes it (whenever that is), not the game we have.

Others have left over noncommunication and the way this thread has been responded to, or rather not responded to. Some word from BioWare on this content, by preference in this thread, would go a long way to assuaging that disappointment. That's all.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
09.04.2012 , 07:58 PM | #1117
Quote: Originally Posted by Hessen View Post
Because people are posting saying that they want it soon. Just because you might have adjusted your expectations to wait for a long time for it to arrive, doesn't mean other people are. When people are saying they are unsubbing because of it, that implies wanting it implemented soon.
Individuals may place SGRA first on their personal priority list to the point where they will unsub if it's not in game yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

That's not quite the same as telling BW that it should be numero uno on their dev priority list.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hessen View Post
To be honest, most of the TOR current relationships are that bad.

"Hey I like you"
"Hey I like you too"
*kiss*
*screen fades to black*

"Lets get married"
Really?

I have no clue how the romances are...never done one or watched vids for them on youtube. I just assumed they were decent.

If so, that sucks.

losdia's Avatar


losdia
09.04.2012 , 08:17 PM | #1118
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Really?

I have no clue how the romances are...never done one or watched vids for them on youtube. I just assumed they were decent.

If so, that sucks.
They aren't quite that bad. I would even go so far as to say a couple of them are okay. While the initial "hook up" scenes aren't always the best, the way romance arcs in general work is more like they retool how general companion interactions are to give them a quasi-romantic quality. This is a little more accurate:

"Hey, 'sup"
":sniff: I'm having angst about my dark and troubled past."
"Baby, I want you to know I am there for you. Just tell me what's wrong."
":sniff: ...k (tells the truly tragic story of how these two dudes used to roll them for milk money everyday in 7th grade)"
"Let's go find those guys and KICK THEIR ***!"
"Yayz! I wuv you sooooooo much!"

/bows

Thus is great romance born.
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"Yeah, I think so."
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
09.04.2012 , 08:19 PM | #1119
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Really?

I have no clue how the romances are...never done one or watched vids for them on youtube. I just assumed they were decent.

If so, that sucks.
That's a very distinct oversimplification, stuffystuffs, but there is indeed zero on-screen bedroom action. Which, honestly, I have no particular problem with. Hessen is downplaying the relationship developmental tension that goes on - but which is, by the nature of writing a game, truncated when compared to real life.

Frankly it confuses the stuffing out of me that people seem to expect in-game relationships to be as organic and fluid as relationships are in real life. It's a game. Someone's written these lines with a high level of cross-character compatibility in mind - by that I mean that up to a certain point (and after a certain point) Vette needs to relate to the PC in a manner that is compatible with a male Sith Warrior she's interested in and a female Sith Warrior she doesn't give a damn about.

To achieve the level of relationship fluidity people seem to expect there'd need to be at least three versions of her dialogue:

1) Vette relating to a Sith Warrior she doesn't like
2) Vette relating to a Sith Warrior she likes
3) Vette relating to a Sith Warrior she likes romantically

If you insist that the gender of the PC would undoubtedly impact on Vette's interactions with the Sith Warrior (an argument I am not convinced by) that becomes five unique versions of her dialogue:

1) Vette relating to a male Sith Warrior she doesn't like
2) Vette relating to a male Sith Warrior she likes
3) Vette relating to a male Sith Warrior she likes romantically
4) Vette relating to a female Sith Warrior she doesn't like
5) Vette relating to a female Sith Warrior she likes

...and a theoretical sixth, Vette relating to a female Sith Warrior she likes romantically, if she's SGRA enabled.

No matter how you look at it this is a massive increase on the work (and cost) required to produce a Vette that is gender- and romance-neutral for the majority of her dialogue, with some romance-specific dialogue in particular scenes.

So no, they're not as fluid and organic as you'd find in real life, or even in a single-player game such as Dragon Age Origins where they pinned down far fewer specific characters to be romance-capable (out of a far lower total number of companion NPCs). That does not mean they're 'bad'. It might mean they don't live up to some people's expectations but it doesn't mean it's bad writing. It's actually quite good writing, from what I've seen - but it is writing within certain restrictions.
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chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
09.04.2012 , 09:11 PM | #1120
Well, having done several of the romances, I think some of them are better than others.
I thought Torian Cadera was boring and felt forced. However, I loved Kaliyo Djannis's romance. Because it was pretty far from the standard. I typically like to avoid getting my character married, lol.

Don't expect a whole lot out of the romances in this game though....there isn't really enough detail put into them. It doesn't stop my imagination, however.
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